[Chosen / KotBS] Possible "aura" suggestion

[th3gatekeeper]

So I was too lazy to go find the quote where Azarael said that he dislikes the "ease" of which Knights (and Chosen) can apply party buffs.

In removing the "twisting" it has now become very easy for a "buff bot" tank to just /follow and afk (exaggerating ofc).

So my suggestion would be to have aura stats build up over time in combat - similar to Morale in some regards.

Looking @ T4, the auras provide 75 of a stat. (as a base, they do increase with points in the tree I realize)

So what if, the auras started with a base of X stat (call it 25) and then you gain 5 stat /sec while in combat up to a maximum of 75 stat.

This means it takes 10 seconds of being in combat to get the full benefit of the boost and then staying IN combat to keep them up. If you leave combat, you would EITHER drop back down to 25, or simple lose 5/sec or maybe even 10/sec - similar to losing morale once out of combat.

This way, it takes some active management to get the full stat bonuses of the auras by maintaining combat and not just posting up and giving your party amazing benefits.

EDIT: Another idea I posed later in this thread would be that the aura is cast however NO benefits apply unless the Chosen/Knight use an ability from that respective tree.

Example: A Knight uses: To Glory, Encouraged Aim, and Gather Resolve - all as "Active".

He then runs into battle and hits using "Precision Strike" - proccing "to Glory" and "Encouraged Aim" for X seconds.

He then noticed an "enchantment" and uses "Shatter Cofidence" which procs his "Gather" aura for X seconds.

Auras would be refreshed when using an ability from that tree again.

[Shadowgurke]

That is not exactly my definition of active management. The only thing it does is nerf them slightly

[TenTonHammer]

we ll you have to factor in the fact that people will be dropping pts into trees so the values arnt 75 but i do see your point and i defiantly feel it is an interesting suggestion

now i ask a question. if you swap to a different aura like for example a kotbs is running str, tough,resists then trades tough for another aura like stay focused then switches back to tough but has been in combat for 10s will they get the full strength tough bonus or will it need to "build up"?

If its the latter then i feel that this will disuade people from aura shifting/running diffrent aura/using different auras when the situation calls for it like thorns auras, hdbuff auras etc

and will instead result in kotbs/chosen having to just run the big 3 str tough resits auras

furthermore then this will result potentially in the priortization of the x2 kotbs becuase then they would need some one to rune stay focused for focused mind and one other tank to run str tough resists

[Jaycub]

I don't see how this would promote skillful play anymore than the current system, seems like you would still not really have to think about auras at all.

I think if you want to salvage the aura mechanic you need to turn it into a reactionary ability that starts off very strong when cast then diminishes over a short period of time so that the user is reading the situation on the battlefield and best applying the aura for the situation at the time, and punishes players who just afk with 3 auras always turned on.

[th3gatekeeper]

To the above,

I dont think they/we want to really go back to active management of the auras? Twisting?

This is only a mild-active management since it requires awareness of staying in combat. So I agree its not "active" but frankly that was a HUGE turn off to me on live and why I initially said I would never make a Chosen or Knight until i found out it was fixed here...

I personally hated pressing the aura button every 3 seconds... I dont think it requires a ton of "skill" to do more than it just being annoying...

Ive been trying to come up with solutions here and this is the only one that really stuck out at me. Its still passive, but requires some level of "engagement" as well as "build up" so its not like you have full benefits for the group come second 1 of combat.

Because it requires some active management, itll force Chosen/Knights to think more about being front line, maybe playing slightly more aggressively.

I think if you want to salvage the aura mechanic you need to turn it into a reactionary ability that starts off very strong when cast then diminishes over a short period of time so that the user is reading the situation on the battlefield and best applying the aura for the situation at the time, and punishes players who just afk with 3 auras always turned on.

^ This is another option that I initially favored but still is fixed with addons that force you to just "aura" button every X seconds.

My initial idea was you would get X stats for 5-10 seconds then half the stats thereafter. I just didnt like it as much since its basically going back to the old system of hitting an aura button every X seconds.... It really kills some of the fun IMO.


The OTHER idea that I was trying to figure out plausiability of, would be auras being "activated" or "boosted" or interact with abilities in those trees.

So it would be something like:
"Encouraged Aim" - provides 75 strength for 10 seconds after using an ability from the Path of Glory.

So the "activation" is an encounter from that tree - forcing you to balance between all abilities rather than just spam 1 for all the benefit of that aura.

Which after typing that out.... Might be the best option, IDK.

[Shadowgurke]

I don't see how this would promote skillful play anymore than the current system, seems like you would still not really have to think about auras at all.

I think if you want to salvage the aura mechanic you need to turn it into a reactionary ability that starts off very strong when cast then diminishes over a short period of time so that the user is reading the situation on the battlefield and best applying the aura for the situation at the time, and punishes players who just afk with 3 auras always turned on.

I thought about that solution too. But imo it will fall short because it's too impractical. Regardless of how you set it up, at the end of the day the auras are too simple to allow for much play. The odd ones are AP drain, which could work, and HD, which is already covered by other classes. The others are either do more damage or take less damage. And you want to use them when you are in combat, all the time.

Yes, theoretically there are situations in which you take more damage and in others where you bring the pain. But at the end of the day these scenarios are rare and the theoretical edge is easily compensated for with pure uptime by just using them on cooldown

[TenTonHammer]

Well let's first ask, what do we want to accomplish that nerfing auras because auras 2strok or address the fact that auras are soo good that ch/kotbs feels mandatory?

What if you weaken auras and their scaling so that other classes alternatives like da greenest are better alternatives?

[th3gatekeeper]

Well let's first ask, what do we want to accomplish that nerfing auras because auras 2strok or address the fact that auras are soo good that ch/kotbs feels mandatory?

What if you weaken auras and their scaling so that other classes alternatives like da greenest are better alternatives?

I cant speak for Azarael but he has commented on the forums as well as in our teamspeak about making Chosen/Knight not so "easy" to buff the group.

I think the main culprit right now is you stick a Knight with 3 auras and 20% crit spec in a party who essentially can just AFK and "win".

So the objective in all this is to make it "no so potent" when sitting "afk" so to speak, requiring a little more "activity" in order for the benefits, or atleast the FULL benefits to kick in.

I think changing the auras so they dont require clicking every 3 seconds was very positive but its made it "too easy" to keep them up.

So these solutions were trying to address the "ease" of the aura buffs without reverting back to live...


So far, the three options we have brought up in the thread are:
1) Build up over time
2) Strong at first then drop off after X seconds
3) aura benefits apply when used in conjunction with ability from that tree.

[Shadowgurke]

Well let's first ask, what do we want to accomplish that nerfing auras because auras 2strok or address the fact that auras are soo good that ch/kotbs feels mandatory?

What if you weaken auras and their scaling so that other classes alternatives like da greenest are better alternatives?

Imo it all comes down to uptime. Sham/AM, RP/Zealot, DoK/WP and Chosen/KotBS have "permanent statbuffs". The difference is that Chosen/KotBS have 3 buffs, the others only one/one per target.
Everything else, including Da Greenest, are not up 100% of the time. Even when we have a theoretical uptime of 100% (Example: Supression. 15% Parry buff, 10s CD, 15s Duration) it will still most likely fall short to a permanent 10% parry buff due to circumstances like being CCd, other skill uses being more important or simply lack of attention. I'm getting sidetracked.

My idea is to make auras no longer permanent. Instead we give them a duration. Same power level, capped to 3 auras.
To prevent macroing, we attach them to skills. Example: Using Tooth of Tzeentch would activate the Strength aura for like 15s. This would promote 1) Active gameplay, 2) adaptability since you can swap on the fly and 3) skill.
The downside would be that we can't change the tooltip of the skills (?) so it's probably not as transparent as It should be.

[th3gatekeeper]

My idea is to make auras no longer permanent. Instead we give them a duration. Same power level, capped to 3 auras.
To prevent macroing, we attach them to skills. Example: Using Tooth of Tzeentch would activate the Strength aura for like 15s. This would promote 1) Active gameplay, 2) adaptability since you can swap on the fly and 3) skill.
The downside would be that we can't change the tooltip of the skills (?) so it's probably not as transparent as It should be.

Did you read my 3rd suggestions (or my 2nd in the OP).

It was the auras duration is based on skills in each tree. For instance, Encouraged Aim procs off any Path of Glory encounter for X seconds (maybe 10?).

So in order to use them, you need to use abilities from different trees. Atleast it would require an "Active" application. Doing 3 auras from each tree would be somewhat difficult to manage if on shorter buff times.

So you "pick three auras" to activate. So they are "active" just not providing any benefit until you use the ability in the same tree, which provides the buff/debuff for X seconds.

You could even make it MORE difficult and let them run for 12 seconds but NOT refresh itself meaning you need to recast an ability from that tree after 12 seconds to re-proc the buff.

This would probably be the best solution IMO to provide active management of auras and remove 100% uptime.