Improving RvR zone

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bwdaWAR
Posts: 309

Re: Improving RvR zone

Post#11 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:08 am

th3gatekeeper wrote:Id like to weigh in on this and I think the OP is onto something but I would propose an alternate to his solution...
This, like the OP's proposition, only seems to consider the issue from the dominant faction's point of view. It is all nice to force them to defend BOs, but doing the same with the weaker faction is a bad idea since it will discourage even trying to capture a point - if the zerg notices it, they can easily go there and recapture anytime, and that likely means not even any kills for the weaker force if the AAO is too great.
Removing the rewards from taking neutral or undefended BOs has one very big problem, specifically this: Open RvR always starts with the so-called PvE. The number of players varies during the day, and no matter how interesting, eventually even the longest-lasting fight will end and players will leave. What would new players logging in go into the lakes for if they know they don't gain anything at all in there? There is no guarantee that there will be enemies. This is not a scenario that won't start until it has enough players and then it's locked both for the players involved and those not. Exactly because of its OPEN nature does it need to have some incentive (meaning reward) for players to get in there even if there is no fighting.
That is also relevant to the Flight Master proposition, the incentive to do things. This is, ultimately, a GAME. People play it to have fun; and not only that, but there are a large number of other games out there, and basically infinite other activities one can do for entertainment. This is the reason why in games, you must be very careful in the carrot-and-stick motivation with the stick types. If you are too harsh with it, people will not do what you try to force them to do. They will just lose interest and eventually leave to do something else instead. Small amounts of stick can work, mostly by adding requirements to obtaining rewards. But greatly inconveniencing players will likely just lower the player population.

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lilsabin
Posts: 619

Re: Improving RvR zone

Post#12 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:24 am

rvr is **** boring , all we do is run from BO to BO , then when all are capped go to keep and play tug of war , RINSE AND REPEAT FOR ALL TIER all day long , and you have people just following the wb for the points (rr , inf , exp) . I am sorry , but this is boring , i dont feel like doing any PVP at all , but more like ridding everywhere on the map to cap BO and if we encounter opposition , we all stop and run back , like WTF

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Gachimuchi
Posts: 525

Re: Improving RvR zone

Post#13 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:55 am

Currently, when a small group captures a BO as the defending faction and the zerg is on their keep and they only controlled 3 BOs prior, the zerg will immediately leave the keep and get to the BO before time is up and run over the opposing group with sheer numbers. The BO is then locked for a time and the zerg returns to the keep.

The problem is in there is very little reward for claiming BOs to delay the capturing of the keep. Additionally, there is no incentive for the zerg to split up.

When a group captures a battle objective in the scenario described above, the reward they get for doing so is very insignificant. When the zerg mounts up and heads towards the BO the defenders get easy pickings on whoever is slowest to assimilate into the amoeba-like collective that is the dominant zerg.

Keep defenders in WBs get exp/rp from just being there and getting tics from healer's healing. Additionally, they will sometimes get loot drops and more exp/renown/inf when the RDPS manages to pick someone off. For all the melees this requires very little effort for the most part for usually equal if not better rewards for flipping a BO. And in the event that they repel the attackers the defense tic is just icing on the cake. There is no such implementation for defending a BO other than reclaiming one that is contested.
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th3gatekeeper
Posts: 952

Re: Improving RvR zone

Post#14 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:21 pm

bwdaWAR wrote: Removing the rewards from taking neutral or undefended BOs has one very big problem, specifically this: Open RvR always starts with the so-called PvE. The number of players varies during the day, and no matter how interesting, eventually even the longest-lasting fight will end and players will leave. What would new players logging in go into the lakes for if they know they don't gain anything at all in there? There is no guarantee that there will be enemies. This is not a scenario that won't start until it has enough players and then it's locked both for the players involved and those not. Exactly because of its OPEN nature does it need to have some incentive (meaning reward) for players to get in there even if there is no fighting.
Fair points. What do you think of that being part of the proposal then? The RvR objectives only open when there are X number of players on each side in the zone? (Not including warcamps). This would ensure that there is atleast SOME opposing group...

Maybe you are right. Removing rewards from BOs might kill RvR too much... I guess you could always shorten the "lock" timers on BOs. So something like - it takes 1 minute to lock, but it only locks for 3-5 minutes or something like that... So this would potentially address
Gachimuchi wrote:The problem is in there is very little reward for claiming BOs to delay the capturing of the keep. Additionally, there is no incentive for the zerg to split up.
Being that NOW if you dont defend a BO, and a small group caps it, they merely need to hold that for 1 minute and it locks for a few minutes... Meaning that zerg cant leave it un defended. I also think that allowing AAO to increase the cap rewards would greatly incentive small groups from stealing from large warbands... If you had 200% AAO, capping a BO would reward 2-3x the rewards AND if you can lock it quickly... you could get both ticks and would be worth defending with your life to get the ticks and disrupt the WB for 3-5 minutes....
bwdaWAR wrote: That is also relevant to the Flight Master proposition, the incentive to do things. This is, ultimately, a GAME. People play it to have fun; and not only that, but there are a large number of other games out there, and basically infinite other activities one can do for entertainment. This is the reason why in games, you must be very careful in the carrot-and-stick motivation with the stick types. If you are too harsh with it, people will not do what you try to force them to do. They will just lose interest and eventually leave to do something else instead. Small amounts of stick can work, mostly by adding requirements to obtaining rewards. But greatly inconveniencing players will likely just lower the player population.
I agree. I wasnt saying LOCK the entire zone, but if you did make it somewhat painful to lose a zone... Players might think twice about letting a WB cap it, I dunno it was just an idea... Other options could be increasing the flight COSTS into a zone that is locked by another faction....
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