Ruin Gear Wipe

[Mael]

Bloody hell. Just caught up on this thread, and omg I simply can't believe what I am reading.

I'm relatively new to this server, but I installed it all knowing a) it was a PRIVATE server, b) that the official version of the game is DEAD, and lastly c) that this server is constantly in flux as it is firstly clearly stated as being ALPHA and secondly the devs/mods etc themselves are still coding and getting to grips with code. They don't have a manual, nor do they have some ex-official programmer sitting in their offices (which they don;t have as they do this in their own time FOR FREE) that they can tap for info. I also knew it was all entirely FREE and relied upon volunteers to keep it going.

Looking at some of the join dates of the moaners, you honestly need to go and take a long hard look in the mirror! If you've been present for over 6 months here on these forums and posted hundreds of posts, you should by now surely have grasped the context of what the hell is being offered here! Surely humans can't be this dense and bloody selfish? I've seen more sense in a Gerbil.

Sorry for getting annoyed, but even I've noticed in the last few weeks the level of self entitlement & toxicity in these forums is getting bloody awful.

To put this into some personal context for the people who obviously have lots of problems reading...

Say I took the time to host a private server for people, I then taught myself in my own time about code that has no manual, and is inherently broken. I paid for that server out of my own money that I could otherwise use for bills,beer etc. I then found a host for some nice forums that people could use. I then found that people were playing on that free server - great.
Then those self same people who had offered no actual help at all started yelling and whining that I wasn't giving them a perfect experience, despite me not getting paid anything at all for doing it, and also doing it in my evenings/weekends and spare time.

Honestly, I'd perma ban anyone that moaned more than once.


Just think on these 3 questions for one second before you make your next self entitled whinging post please.

1. What will you do with your time when you push the voluntary team here one step too far, and they simply pull the plug on the server?
2. Where else will you go to play this game that you allegedly love so much?
3. Do you have the money/patience/time/capability or balls to start up a new version of this here ON YOUR OWN?

[Tesq]

@mael

your text wall can be easily answered as yes we are helping -->we are testing stuff so we can also make some critics here and there and since we have no real power to force anything then we can at least do that.
And since with out player your immaginary server would be empty; in the long run bad handle situations create population drop aka warhammer in live.
It would be in my best interest have critics then i can judge if they are well done or bad you dont need to whiteknighting dev and treat us like last 2 idiots on the server really.

[imhappy]

Anyform of talisman refund? guessing no but still gotta ask

[Tesq]

Honestly if people cant stand losing a few pieces of gear due to a bug how did you manage to survive mythic turning off the live servers? Just be thankful you can play. If the grinding wasnt fun for you why did you do it? If you feel it was lost time maybe you should be questioning your motivations.

it's not loosing 1-2 pieces is matter of principles, you cannot hit 10% of population doing pq cos 1% is being afk while 60% of ppl in rvr are tradefarm annihilator lol.

hit everyone equally not pq-ers cos forum was full of bias-afk report.......-> aka exatly what happened when order bias for destru devastator farming.

[Telen]

it's not loosing 1-2 pieces is matter of principles, you cannot hit 10% of population doing pq cos 1% is being afk while 60% of ppl in rvr are tradefarm annihilator lol.

hit everyone equally not pq-ers cos forum was full of bias-afk report.......-> aka exatly what happened when order bias for destru devastator farming.

Well if you have evidence of trading anni post it. Why were you grinding anyway if you werent enjoying it? Shouldnt you be asking yourself that question. This is a game if you arent enjoying playing it go do something else.

[Tesq]

it's not loosing 1-2 pieces is matter of principles, you cannot hit 10% of population doing pq cos 1% is being afk while 60% of ppl in rvr are tradefarm annihilator lol.

hit everyone equally not pq-ers cos forum was full of bias-afk report.......-> aka exatly what happened when order bias for destru devastator farming.

Well if you have evidence of trading anni post it. Why were you grinding anyway if you werent enjoying it? Shouldnt you be asking yourself that question. This is a game if you arent enjoying playing it go do something else.

i enjoy play in orvr, fighting army fights...... worst case scenario is when i need to do pq set cos my block suck and guess what ruin is the a pve set and guess what even worst random g-bags etc...while i do not definetly like farm i do definetly be able to play my tank and definetly a tank need gear the most to be tanky you know.

there is no need of such evidence today both order and destru swapped 9 zone in row between 16-18 pm gmt+1, i was there, everyone was there and everyone saw what was going on ..... and guess what; i said more time in guild wb to go to the next order locking zone to stop this trading but order done it first in the end and luckily.

[roadkillrobin]

it's not loosing 1-2 pieces is matter of principles, you cannot hit 10% of population doing pq cos 1% is being afk while 60% of ppl in rvr are tradefarm annihilator lol.

hit everyone equally not pq-ers cos forum was full of bias-afk report.......-> aka exatly what happened when order bias for destru devastator farming.

Well if you have evidence of trading anni post it. Why were you grinding anyway if you werent enjoying it? Shouldnt you be asking yourself that question. This is a game if you arent enjoying playing it go do something else.

He means that both sides avoid goin to same zone so they can lock empty zones and gearing up for "proper" PVP later on. It's a win win for both sides since moast people are capped RR anyway. So it's basicly exploiting the ORVR mechanics. He didn't mean literary trading gear with eachother.

[footpatrol2]

So I just logged on...

I won a gold bag from a keep that had a chest piece in it annilahtor...(last night) I did not pick the chest piece because I already had one... I was thinking on maybe getting a 2nd set of annihalator or maybe go with the medallions... So I decided to save it as a bag and decide later. Now that gold bag is gone?

no GM's online atm.

Did I get caught up in this mess?

[Genisaurus]

Believe me, we thought about alternatives to just wiping it for everyone. I don't and won't hide from the criticism for our choice, I welcome it. Perhaps it was a mistake, and you're fair to think so. But it was a decision we deliberated on and thought about - and you know it's a hard decision when Torque is on the edge about it.

We considered trying to be as graceful as we were able to be when we launched Tier 4 - When we found out Boundless was on par with dungeon drops and had a drop rate far lower than .025%, we created a new set of weapons to swap out for it, so the playerbase wouldn't be hurt too much. Thankfully, these weapons had no talisman slots, so this was easy. Well, easier, it was still a pain in the ass to manually replace 70 items across, what, 12 tables?

When we had to replace broken mounts that were bought too cheaply with fixed ones that were priced appropriately, we went out of our way to refund the gold spent on every mount. That was more of a pain in the ass, but more in the creative sense of working around access restrictions to the character DB to do it.

So why didn't we go through the same amount of effort here?

1. The first, biggest, reason is because we are under no obligation to. Just because we're nice sometimes, does not mean we are required to be nice all of the time. This reason informs and feeds into other reasons, but it stands alone well enough.

2. With the prior two wipes, we were sitting on content that we had not announced a deadline to release. We were rushed in the sense that our game was a buggy mess at the time, but we had the freedom to apply a little more polish without making the state of the game worse. Contrast that to this situation:

In order for us to take a precision approach to wiping, we would have had to monitor 6 PQs with ~4-5 available GMs, who would be unable to handle anything else. These GMs would have to sit and watch up to 40 players at any single PQ, and try to determine who was leeching, and who just stepped away for a second. Except, the problem was worse than that - players were not being removed from PQs at all. Any player who ran through the area would get a loot roll. Any player who took an SC pop in the middle of the PQ would get a loot roll. Any player who moved around and talked, but didn't heal or fight would get a loot roll - that's not "AFKing" in any sense. A questing player who just happened to graze the boundary of the PQ while passing from one chapter camp to another would get a loot roll.

And every 5-10 minutes that you don't do something, at least 1 character is getting another piece of gear that they didn't earn across all of the PQs that work, and probably more than one. We knew about the issue and were working on fixes for the last 36-ish hours. That's around 150 pieces of gear floating around, and that's a conservative guess. Every minute that we weren't doing something, the problem gets worse. And every minute that we didn't do something, our ability to track players in the way required to precisely wipe AFKers got worse and worse. Our GMs need to sleep.

3. I specifically warned the community that this would happen. Not just now, but perhaps in the future too. You complain that we haven't wiped Annihilator, and that's just as ill-gotten as Ruin was - well who's to say that we won't? All of the same reasons we had for wiping Ruin the way we did apply to Anni too. This is not a threat, but a chance for the community to step back and realize that all buggy or broken content is prone to correction.

4. As much as we complain that our players refuse to treat the game like an alpha, sometimes we don't treat it like one either. Considering the state of the game, maybe going out of our way to make wipes like the Boundless and Mount wipes as painless as possible is actually worse for the server. The nicer we are to our playerbase, the more many of them try to take advantage of us. For every player who worked hard completing PQs and thought we wouldn't wipe them because they were honest, there was another player AFKing because they thought we wouldn't wipe, or thought they could weasel out of it somehow.

At the end of the day, we decided to wipe it because it was the most effective way to address a problem that would only get worse the longer we took to do so. The content hasn't even been available for a full week yet, and we have people who had already received a full set and then raged that they lost something they put a few hours worth of effort into.

[th3gatekeeper]

Guys,

PLEASE consider reworking the PQ scoring system. Its really killed participation. Ive done a handful since the change. I did 40-50 PQs on the OLD system and I really really dislike the new one.

You work your BUTT off to get like 4th contribution, because your a tank and not a DPS. Then you roll a crap 100 number and are lucky to get a white bag.

The entire time you feel like you are competing AGAINST everyone else and you actually WANT people to die, so they do less damage, get less score...

Then you feel screwed everytime you get top 1-2 and dont get a good roll.

Honestly, feels like its "double RNG" because you have no idea where you will land with contr. and also your roll.


How should it work (IMO)?
Honestly, you should have three different tiers of bonus. Gold, Silver, Bronze.

Get 100 contribution or more, get the bronze bonus of +100 to your roll.
Get 200 or more, get Silver of +200.
Get 300 contribution or more, get gold of +300.

You can tweak these per PQ if needed. Like Dragonwakes PQ has more points thatn the Deathsword. But this type of system where multiple people can get the same top "tier" roll bonus now makes you want to work together to get points, not against eachother. You still cant AFK since you will get no contribution, or minimal contribution etc.

It needs to be something where you dont feel:
1) Double RNG
2) screwed if your not AoE damage
3) working against everyone else.

After the wipe, I thought, "ok cool, ill farm more, no problem". I log in, NOONE is doing PQs. I find a small WB of 10 guys doing Praag's PQ. We do it 5-6 times and only 1 gold bag dropped. People were just getting SO frustrated, some of these guys I farmed many many PQs pre wipe with. Im not complaining about the wipe, just needs to be not such a frustrating new score system. It really has killed people's desire to do them and it DRASTICALLY favors some classes over others.

WIth a "tier" threshold system, DPS classes will have an easier time getting top tier, but even a tank could do it without too much difficulty and then its just pure dice roll at that point. It would be much less frustrating working in a WB, even if 8+ guys all get "gold" noone feels screwed unless no gold bag drops.

Which is my final request. If you have 5-6+ people there, a gold bag should have a high chance to drop... otherwise noone will do these.