improving the general RvR-system - not just my two cents

[Telen]

Guard duty is boring. I hated doing that for hours in GW2. Even worse when half the guild is talking about the great fight they just had.

[chaoscode]

I think the thing that everyone is missing is the larger picture here. When we have the game complete, Zone locking everything in all zones is needed to do fortress attacks and move to the city. If you prolong the T1-T4 zone locks like this, then fortress attack will never happen. The issue isn't that the current system is broken. It's that the game is unfinished. When all zones need to be locked, it will break up the zerg into the other zones. Solving the issue on its own.

[Karast]

Guard duty is boring. I hated doing that for hours in GW2. Even worse when half the guild is talking about the great fight they just had.

It is not just that it is boring, but it is also the fact that it is not very rewarding as well. If I sit around and watch a BO, I am not out there killing, taking BO's. or taking keeps. I am not getting renown, xp, or loot.

Because it is not rewarding a lot of people won't do it, even if it is something they don't mind doing, if they are working towards grinding out renown ranks, or set gear.

[Tesq]

I think the thing that everyone is missing is the larger picture here. When we have the game complete, Zone locking everything in all zones is needed to do fortress attacks and move to the city. If you prolong the T1-T4 zone locks like this, then fortress attack will never happen. The issue isn't that the current system is broken. It's that the game is unfinished. When all zones need to be locked, it will break up the zerg into the other zones. Solving the issue on its own.

-the single lock zone and the campaign push are 2 separate stuff, zerg can also decide to push 1 zone empty like the other side does and both end to engage in the mid zone as it has alwaysd happened in live.
Which is another problem by itself.

-Then there is the city farm...
regard to this problem specifically you need a campaign system which make stuff more balanced and force ppl to have somekind of x point in something else to have an easier or harder city siege which could be found by make t2-t3 relevant for city difficulty or ANY other not related to lock zone point system. This would prevent 1 realm or both at circle due to x realmers to roll over and over a city.

-The zone lock by self regard more the balance of the zerg in different timezone and how much ppl can decide to not pack togheter to achive something.
Pack togheter is not always bad, when it became the only way to achive something it is. Which is why ppl hate keep fight after some breakign point is reach in character level. It became too easy defend by funnel or too hard defend inner.
Multiple way to siege keep need to be found to make things less boring and more various

....

-split empty zerg campaign push (dont allow ppl to pop and easy fast lock empty zones which had no contribution from a third source like resource system)
-city farm ( way to handle the farm for the underdogs or by xrealmers)
-inside zone lock meccanics ( multiple way to lock required and additional things not related to lock to do)
-keep siege more various (need additional stuff like overasked ramps, section to claim before inner etc)

each one need to be look separately.

[odapain]

after reading the OP i see this is where the current state of RvR came from with recant t4 patch, and tho i agree with the thought process of the OP the implement into this server didnt work with the goal intended which was from my understanding to split zerging get more fighting in the zone prolonging zone flips.
here are some of the things me and my stream have noticed that are not helping with current state of rvr.

incentive : there is no incentive for BO fights or captures to stop or prolong the zone flip after the oposing zerg has bulldozered down the keeps.

there really seems like there isnt a way you can stop zerging regardless of mechanics you place on a map ppl are going to feel there missing out if there not where rest are or feel unsafe ect.

so here are some sugestions to change with current system i think would help.

- siege engines dmg scaled considerbly higher as it is now they tickle ppl i would sugest maybe 3-4x there current dmg apart from oil ( spent 90g yesterday testing each keep only 1 worked for oil praag but it did do a good amount of dmg that made the zerg stop attacking door to nuke the oil down fast perhaps increase its hp tho it died too quick and repair didnt work ): reasoning , this will help defending sides with low pop as it is normaly the case to slow or hualt zerging side progression and give Mdps the actual role bypass was intended for ( also make it punishable for WL to use pounce to get on walls !!!! they have bypass use it ) also remove guards from walls and lower floors of keeps or make there agro range extreamly lower.

- BO get bk there rewards for capping and increased xp/rr for kills on them as it is now not only in t4 but the low amount of rewards for the zones for loosing side is demolarising cuasing ppl to either xrealm or pve/sc , even just sit in camp waiting for others to log on for zerging ect. giving the rewards back might bring ppl out for fights again slow down capture of zone as they need the 4 to flip ect.

- idk if this is even possible but a slight change to aao by giving it extra buff to loosing side something similar to ram buff on live where if u killed oposing ram u got a dmg and def buff

for example at 1% dmg / def per 20% giving a total if at 400 of 20% dmg/def buff on top of other benifit

there is nothing worse then being rolled over by a zerg some xrealm over to sit in zergs making it even worse but giving the low pop side a reason to fight and a chance of winning will imo stop or at least encourage ppl to not xrealm making the numbers worse.

im posting this here rather then opening a new thread as i agree with OP in what he wants to happen and the recant changes are a step in right direction they just didnt have the desired effect as we want the same goal i am offering my and my streams 2cent

also what was the reasoning behind not increasing the RR ? i heard it would cuase a power gap which i dont really agree with me personaly being rr40 on 5 toons which took less then a 2 weeks to do from lvl 1 btw.
me personaly would like to see a increase but the amount u need to gain a lvl 2 or even 3x what it is now some might not agree but as we dont have the gear anyway the lvls are just a mean of progression to keep us playing our mains we enjoy and still get rewarded for our time played after we are geared.w

[Tesq]

what about kill vp to lock the zone---> no more avoid fightings?

if ppl avoid fighting hold everything for 30 min then you lock ..... sound so easy to me.

[Moeroes]

I think the removal of the renown rank restriction to your career rank was one of the best changes ever made on live. Also the removal of any rr/exp and inf gain makes fighting over BOs incredibly unrewarding. I love T4 and I'm the last person not bein grateful to the devs for bringing this wonderful game back but those changes should be reconsidered.

[drmordread]

The problem though with rewards for BO's is that people will sit on a BO waiting for a tick, and lose an entire zone. I kind of like the No rewards system, especially for my solo laystyle. I can contribute to the defense of a pairing, slowing down destro, and do not need a group to do it.

This morning destro were on their way to locking all three pairings, again ... My realm pride kicked in and started capping the bo's in the empty zones, flipping them back one.

Now I can hear all of you zerg lovers complain, and say I am PvE'ing and all that other crap. But once fortresses and city siege come around, I play to WIN. That means doing everything I can to stop the enemy from reaching my city, while I am trying to get to theirs.
Zergs dont care, offense or defense, a wb will mindlessly go from one zone to the next, mindlessly crashing into the other zerg, and mindlessly dying, blah blah blah .... no thinking, no strategy, not anything ... (really makes me laugh when I see you people call this fighting and PvP, because it is neither).

Bottom line, the point I am trying to make is whatever final system is put into place, there has to be a way for a small group of dedicated people with realm pride, to stop the enemy from reaching the fortresses and city.

[Shutyergob]

All of this is just trying 2 bandage over the original sin the creators of this game comitted, and that is having only two factions. This is the flaw from which all this zerg problems flow, like so much pus out of a rotting, infected wound. AAO with 3 factions would work wonders toward remedying the zerg.

[Kergar]

What stops both sides from taking 2 BO and attacking the enemy keep, while hoping to be faster than the other side?
In fully loop-sided situation and no BO lock timers, the underdog can never hold a BO. You might interrupt the siege for a few minutes or seconds, as long as it takes to recap the BO.

Beside, with something like a "Fixed" maximum dps to the door, what's supposed to happen when a BO is taken and the keep Locks again? is the door going to regenerate? How much is it supposed to regenerate? And what about the players that decide to guard BOs to allow for the capture of the keep? Are they going to recive an item reward of some sort? Is there any reason why someone should want to give up the chance for a new piece of gear to guard an objective?


I like to go around alone. to pick up 1vs1 and 1vs2 fights when I can get them, so I happen to see a bit of everything, around. How the zerg behave. How the people behave. With this system, knowing that you can have a reward only by reaching a certain point within 3min, puts you in the position to take Risks. If you do, you are creating the chance for someone else to forsee your behaviour, just because he knows what you want. Without something to Seek, something to desidere in the rvr area, not only that would be impossible -and will trash every strategy one might put into walking the zone- but people will likely move to a more rewarding activity. SCs, to name one

This setting is not random. It is studied to manipulate how the players will behave. They need to take a whole area to progress with the rvr campaign, they have to take the keep to lock the area and to take BOs to get the keep. So, talking about BOs, they get a reward to take them and get a reward, the opposite faction have 3min to repel the attack an get a reward for the retaking, the attackers get a reward if they manage to resist and keep the BO and after that , after a 3min fight, anyone from both sides is able to log off saying "I had a shot at a reward. Big, small, doesn't matter, I had a shot."

That's what keeps the War running