Ruin Gear Wipe

[freshour]

I get that it is bare bones, but why not add at least ONE gold bag per PQ... I mean, is that really too much to ask?

[roadkillrobin]

I get that it is bare bones, but why not add at least ONE gold bag per PQ... I mean, is that really too much to ask?

Some of the PQ's are way to easy for this and can be done solo.

This is my sugestion:

Easy PQ: 50% Chance of Gold Bag
Normal PQ 75% Chance of Gold Bag + 25% Chance of purple Turning Gold
Hard PQ 100% Chance of Gold Bag + 50% Chance of purple turning Gold

[th3gatekeeper]

Well as opposed to what? People try and make WBs, but noone wants to because noone wants to help anyone else get better contribution. Ranged AOE DPS classes have the easiest time getting #1/#2 slots, mich higher chances of gold bags and then GTFO leaving all the healers/tanks to sit around for days and farm for RUIN gear?

Atleast this method requires a group that is coordinated to play and mash everything.

Right now its ANTI-teamwork. Ive seen healers pursufully NOT heal tanks or DPS on the Hero just because they want the guy to die and NOT get contribution - counting on the total numbers to still kill the Hero which happens. Healers speccing DPS for higher rewards... tanks speccing DPS for higher rewards.... People getting mad and quitting doing PQs because gold bags dont drop frequent enough and when they do MOST often then go to ranged DPS or AoE DPS?

If you want it to be a LONGER progression to get, then have PQs drop CURRENCY that you spend on RUIN gear. I imagine this wouldnt be terrible hard to do. Then you have a method that is more of a "farm" than "RNG" to get.

heck, you could even start to reward lesser bags (purple/blue) with a chance for currency as well so a player doesnt feel totally screwed when he gets #1 roll + contribution and only gets a purple bag - atleast he got SOME currency as a result (although not as much as a gold bag)....

As I said the MAJOR issue I see is favoritism towards DPS, zero incentive to work together, everyone else (even friends) are competition and it makes me NOT want to be social when I play to do PQs and NOT team with guildmates etc.... And then give up after 5 PQs and not 1 gold bag drop... or the ONE that does drop goes to an AOE Magus or Choppa who gets top 1/2 contribution each time....

Right now, as Im sure you can appreciate, its bare bones functionality. Im sorry but you are going to have to deal with it till further work can be done. Dont expect a finished product for some time and I had Ruin on virtually every character on live and no PQ ever guaranteed a gold bag, if you dont have the patience to do it then dont.

Things will change, things wont change immediately

Yeah I get that man, I do. But this new system ontop of the wipe leaves players pretty salty.... At the very least would it be possible to either provide a higher chance or some incite behind HOW gold bags come? Ive been told everything under the sun about how you get gold bags... I guess it would be nice is they were more frequent is all, or atleast more guaranteed.

I think people could eventually live with that. My biggest beef is the anti-team play aspect. So, again, I really think that would be the next best step IMO. Provide an incentive to team up, work together, and not try and "screw other people by not healing them" or taunting targets that another guy is attacking just to screw him out of damage.... Ive seen it all man...

Before I was mad when AFKers got gear, but I did ENOUGH where eventually I saw rewards... The new system feels like you play your ass off, work AGAINST everyone else, are at a dis advantage when not DPS, and now because less people do it do to these factors, less gold bags drop. Making it even MORE frustrating. Its akin to buying a lottery ticket, and then finding out "RNG" decided there wasnt going to be a lottery this year, better luck next time!... Thats how it FEELS. You work hard, fight against others, and get decent contribution, get a good roll and your excited! But wait! No bag dropped! Next time you do it again, work hard, decent contribution, and a gold bag too! But wait! Poor roll.... etc etc. Atleast the OLD method was just "did a bag drop?!" (and usually it was yes because of the AFKers LOL) and then it was just 1 RNG roll for your chance.... It actually felt like LESS RNG and just a matter of doing it long enough.

Im not against the gear wipe. Im over it. I see why it was needed. But some level of trying to make it "more fun" as opposed to just a painful frustrating rewardless grind.... would be cool.

Atleast with SCs, you have good ones and bad ones... Imagine if only the "top DPS" and "top Healer" got 6 SC emblems and everyone else got NOTHIN. Thats akin to what it feels like now... Everyone works APART and actualyl DOESNT want other players to do well..... Something to fix THAT would be cool.... I think the group thing that splits contribution would go a long way, but JUST splitting wouldnt help as the solo AoE DPS would get #1, which is why you need a multiplier like .6 to everyone in order to beat out a solo AoE DPS.

A coordinated GROUP SHOULD be able to win. Heck, isnt that kinda the premise of the enitre game? Premades? RvR? Groups > Solo PUGs....

Most players are nice enough to WANT to invite everyone else and its not a "zero sum" game.... So I dont think youll get a selfish 6 man to rofl stomp PQs and not invite anyone...

[Tesq]

it's really not the drop rate of g-bags but rater the rolls....

sometimes ppl get 001 while they are healing and playing which suck, i had to reroll glass cannon to stop having those issues, and if you dont do aoe you're out of games.

then idk today a magus+chosen duo got most of g-bags for himself.........

the contribution as gate said need to creat a separation between those that are in/out for the g- bags, the other way is absurb, just took the first 2 when 6, 3 when 8, 4 when 10, 5 when 12+ to roll over the g-bags and that would be a surprising quality life change ( and the keep try bonus need to be removed nly after you got a g-bag)
this would assure that everyone will get every x min/hour a g-bag. The number of g -bag will remain the same but they will be better split between population.

Anyway as side note these sets should be easy to farm i get that they are CURRENTLY the top tiers stuff around but they suppose to not be and force this, make balance the whole pq drops even harder

Both gate suggesitons should be taken in considereation as both:create a poll of players that roll for g bags and then a min number of g-bags always when there are x player would be nice.

[Vigfuss]

https://vimeo.com/166441810

I don't know why but I just can't seem to loot a Gold bag

[Lastcall]

First off, I appreciate the intention of rewarding player effort. A meaningful contribution system will be a huge improvement if and when it can be implemented. But the current system may be doing more harm than good.

The damage based system is causing some perverse behavior from tanks and healers to try and keep pace with dps classes. Actively not healing others, attempting to hide mobs so you can damage them longer than others, and of course respeccing to try and accommodate this new system. People are selfish and respond to incentives, its kind of sad, but to be expected.

I'd prefer the contribution system to remain random while a more equitable algorithm can be devised (a very difficult task). BUT to avoid afk abuse include some minimum threshold of activity to be included in the random roll. Pure healers can still benefit so long as they tag a few mobs and people can work like a team again without hurting their chance at gear - and AFKers wont prosper.

Let's be real when people are mobbing these pqs there is very little difference in effort or ability between the players. Why should the classes with the most burst DPS be given a substantial benefit to their roll?

** edit - I guess the point in discussing this is to try and avoid similar situations in the future if possible if expediting a fix for this is not in the cards. Sometimes a partial solution can be worse than a non-solution and despite the best of intentions often a temporary fix will last longer than wanted. In this case there was another possible simple fix that may have yielded better results (maintaining random above some threshold rather than scaling all contribution) that may be a good case study for future fixes. It seems like community feedback is fairly aligned in this case and the technical implementation is similar if not simpler.

[Druin]

The current system is a quick solution and there will be a new one soon. So no point in discussing it.

[magicthighs]

I'd prefer the contribution system to remain random

We don't. We saw what that caused, and it's not something we'd like to see repeated. It's also a HUGE waste of GM time.

while a more equitable algorithm can be devised (a very difficult task). BUT to avoid afk abuse include some minimum threshold of activity to be included in the random roll. Pure healers can still benefit so long as they tag a few mobs and people can work like a team again without hurting their chance at gear - and AFKers wont prosper.

First of all, you make that sound easy. It isn't. Second, implementing that is wasting time developers can spend on actually implementing a better system that's more fair to healers and tanks.

We have a handful of developers working on this project. You'll have to learn to be patient.

[Lastcall]

It was my impression that some rolls below an activity threshold are set to 001 at the moment. That system alone could cover the simple solution a few people have suggested, but apologies if my understanding is mistaken.

I think the more general point is that any algorithmic contribution system is really , really hard and the random alternative isn't really that bad all things considered. Looking forward to what you have in store, but trying to voice some caution from experience managing teams designing these sort of systems.

[Dabbart]

One thing to remember. The system the Devs put in place, if it doesn't work, they can change it. It's an amazing thing about having creative power.

Work away. Currently, I find Ruin to be a rougher grind than Merc, simply due to gold bag drops. Or lack there-of. This is a long thread, so I apologize if it has been answered, but... Why is it so damned hard to get a gold bag? I don't mean the mechanics, I mean the reason. It's a PvE set. It's sole design is to help you against high RR well equipped people. To get full ruin, one would have to dedicate a lot of time.

Now, I don't mind grinding. Not at all. I just spent 6 hrs last night mobbing my WH to 40. And I am about to hop on my WP and do it all over again. But grinding a PQ with 6 people for hours and not getting a single gold bag gets old in a hurry. And when there is a full WB, the PQ goes quick, you get shite XP(if you are still lvling), and then? Still no Gold occasionally. Every time no gold, people drop. Understandably so ofc.

Is this simply due to other PQs not working? If so, plz forgive the rant.

just my thoughts on that.

As for the wipe. Meh. Wipe away whatever you feel necessary. I'll be disheartened, but I'd relvl every one of my toons to keep playing this game.