Zealot/RP hybrid play issue

[Teslai]

First and foremost, this is for the discussion of the idea and issues presented with hybrid play on zealot/rp. If you do not think this should be an optional playstyle and that healers should forever be healbots that is fine but take your business and your time elsewhere as it does not contribute to the topic.

Now then.

I have 2 issues that I can boil it down to.

1. Leveling.
The other 4 healing classes all get an option to do damage and have healing be done to the defensive target pre-level 10. Rp/zealot can not get this until they spec into Rune of fortune/boon of tzeentch which at earliest can be done at level 25. What this does is make it so the person who wants to play a hybrid zealot has 2 options, level it as a healer until this point or just do straight dps with no option to contribute to healing due to restrictions of harbinger/rune of breaking. Neither of these options are actually what said player wants to do and also option two often leads to confrontations. Also, by speccing into the tree to get that ability the player then has to wait till rank 40 to get the tactic transference/efficient runecarving which heals your defensive target for 50% of damage done while under harbinger/breaking. The other 4 healing classes have the option to contribute as an effective hybrid significantly earlier.

2. Harbinger/breaking.
This mechanic was a late add by mythic in an attempt to clean up messy mastery trees and such for zealot/rp. I actually think the mechanic is fine but just needs a little tuning to make it considerably less polarizing. At the moment zeal/rp hybrids can not actually throw a group heal out to help out if needed due to the cooldown and the very nature of the mechanic taking away every ounce of willpower. The other classes can spec into willpower if desired to actually have a group heal that might matter then continue doing damage while zealot/rp can not.

Theoretical Solution.
My idea at least to fix these issues is to make harbinger/breaking automatically put 25% of damage out as healing to defensive target. This would allow zeal/rp to actually contribute in a hybrid fashion early. Also, I would change the tactic transference/efficient runecarving to take 50% (I think 50% 60ft might work but even 25%, again balance stuff up for debate) damage done in harbinger/ breaking to heal all allies within 60-100 ft (I think 60 but balancing stuff) of the target. As of now many do not even go for transference/efficient due to aoe heal debuff application being preferred to the poor transference option.

Conclusion.
By doing this it would enable the damage zealot/rp player to actually contribute as a hybrid player and help their team out with heals and such. The current state of harbinger/breaking and transference/efficient make it very difficult for the player to actually contribute in a hybrid role.

P.S. plz dont hate me cause i dont healbot zealot/rp

[kweedko]

you know noting about DDZEALOT i leveled my from 1 to 40 not healing at all

You got daemon spittle(lvl18), rite of agony(lvl7) scourge with tact(lvl21) and you still get your hots heals, and harbringer is fine you dont need to look gear dd or heal at all all gear is fine to you

You aready hybrid specing like this http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=zea ... 9:;0:0:0:0:

Git gut mate.

[kweedko]

you can read my suggestions for zeals and rp here viewtopic.php?f=72&t=11972

[Teslai]

Its not about the ability to level and do damage, the thread is specifically about the ability to effectively hybridize. The point is that the other healing classes have much more effective options to which they dont have to actually stop dpsing to heal. IE balance essence and divine assault. Also, thats an RR 50 build that you actually get the ability to hybridize effectively. That means until that point assuming you go for aoe first then your just spamming heal abilities which have terrible scaling due to how polarizing harbinger actually is. Which is fine but your not actually playing a hybrid healer thus not actually contributing to any kind of healing. As mentioned already your still waiting till lvl 27 to get the tactic transference assuming you rush that path and even then your tight on tactic slots until u hit 30 so u cant really even use the tactic you just rushed for. So in the end your not hybrid at all which is the whole point of this thread.

[Teslai]

Also as far as what was suggested by me as a solution, that was said with no idea what the devs can actually adjust so very theoretical 8P

[kweedko]

ugh This forum killing me i click submit and my reply wipes ugh

We don't need another "hybrid class" with broken mechs, and ddhealers not healing anyone except themselfs, and wp in melee heal spec not a dd cause cause its dmg there lower than SB tank .

We need to tweak a bit advantages of ddhealers specs not inventing the bicycle .

[sanii]

We don't need another "hybrid class" with broken mechs, and ddhealers not healing anyone except themselfs, and wp in melee heal spec not a dd cause cause its dmg there lower than SB tank

This. The way mythic approached RPs/Zealots was because they had hybrid trees with mixed healing/DD they gave them worse versions of most of their abilities, especially the DD ones ( which the poster above already summarized to a good degree). Also their "class mechanic" Mark/Rune stat buffs are at the low end of the stick aswell going from 50 (unspecced) to 80 with a full tree in contrast to other buffs which in most cases go from 75 to 120 and in the case of auras for exemple aren't even shatterable.

[Fulkan]

Its not about the ability to level and do damage, the thread is specifically about the ability to effectively hybridize. The point is that the other healing classes have much more effective options to which they dont have to actually stop dpsing to heal. IE balance essence and divine assault. Also, thats an RR 50 build that you actually get the ability to hybridize effectively. That means until that point assuming you go for aoe first then your just spamming heal abilities which have terrible scaling due to how polarizing harbinger actually is. Which is fine but your not actually playing a hybrid healer thus not actually contributing to any kind of healing. As mentioned already your still waiting till lvl 27 to get the tactic transference assuming you rush that path and even then your tight on tactic slots until u hit 30 so u cant really even use the tactic you just rushed for. So in the end your not hybrid at all which is the whole point of this thread.

Basically, Mythic wanted to get away from any sort of "hybrid" specs so they were literally removed from the game and replaced with the current tree set up. The reason the other healers "heal" when DPS'ing isn't because they're hybrid spec but because their damaging abilities return heals. The main DPS ability that a WP or DoK use will heal their defensive target for 300% of that damage done.

Trust me, DPS Zealot were so much better before they changed the trees. They used to be the kings of solo. Right now? Not so much.

[kweedko]

Its not about the ability to level and do damage, the thread is specifically about the ability to effectively hybridize. The point is that the other healing classes have much more effective options to which they dont have to actually stop dpsing to heal. IE balance essence and divine assault. Also, thats an RR 50 build that you actually get the ability to hybridize effectively. That means until that point assuming you go for aoe first then your just spamming heal abilities which have terrible scaling due to how polarizing harbinger actually is. Which is fine but your not actually playing a hybrid healer thus not actually contributing to any kind of healing. As mentioned already your still waiting till lvl 27 to get the tactic transference assuming you rush that path and even then your tight on tactic slots until u hit 30 so u cant really even use the tactic you just rushed for. So in the end your not hybrid at all which is the whole point of this thread.

Basically, Mythic wanted to get away from any sort of "hybrid" specs so they were literally removed from the game and replaced with the current tree set up. The reason the other healers "heal" when DPS'ing isn't because they're hybrid spec but because their damaging abilities return heals. The main DPS ability that a WP or DoK use will heal their defensive target for 300% of that damage done.

Trust me, DPS Zealot were so much better before they changed the trees. They used to be the kings of solo. Right now? Not so much.

they wasnt, better with lack of ddgear and retarder uncleansable 1 min dot ticking about 1k in 3 secs wiping those who has no heal, they where different but not the better

[Rumpel]

Hmmm, i only tried "hybrid" with another dok as Main heal and felt fine. On dmg spikes i helped out and it worked fine for me . Doesn't felt like to less heal. I really like the fact you can change your role considering to your Group so easy.