Shaman Career Mechanic

[Thayli]

I’ve mained Shaman since I started to play RoR, and while the class is fairly fun to play, in comparison to the other healers it feels a bit lackluster. In my opinion, Shaman has the following problems:

Negligible career mechanic
In 99% of the situations during scenarios or ORVR, you can generally spend your AP and global cooldowns on two things: staying alive and healing, in that order. Even at 5 stacks of Gork, it is usually not worth it to add damaging spells to your rotation, simply because they are not worth spending AP and a global cooldown on. Additionally, even when specced into intelligence, the damage is fairly lackluster. Now, while I firmly believe a healer should never be able to outdamage a dedicated DPS class, right now Shaman’s inherent hybrid career mechanic is something that can be safely ignored.

Yer Not So Bad (AP Steal) is a double edged sword
YNSB is a pretty poor and inconsistent way of regaining AP, simply because you get no AP at all when:
- It gets disrupted or blocked
- It gets cleansed
- The target has no more AP to steal
- The target dies
Due to these risks involved, and the whopping cost of 50 AP and a global cooldown to cast, the only situation meriting its use is in a defensive situation. When a WH/Slayer/WL is on me, it is great as it drains their AP and doesn’t break detaunt, effectively being a defensive skill, but as a means to regain AP, it’s mediocre at best. This leads to the following issue:

AP Problems
In order to be able to fairly consistently group heal, I need to slot 2 tactics at the very least: Extra Special Mushrooms (10% heal crit) and Restorative Burst (any time a direct healing ability crits, regain 40 AP over 3 seconds, does not stack) AND get a significant amount of crit heal on items. And even with this, I still get nowhere close to the amount of healing done by the other classes and run out of AP by just spamming groupheal. Compare Runepriest’s Master Rune of Fury or Archmage's Wild Healing to this and it feels like I have to overly invest into regaining AP and still have it be much, much worse. (For the record, I do not think AFK spamming group heal is a playstyle to be promoted, the class imbalance is the focus point here.)

The problem to me is that, while Shaman isn’t useless, the class feels fairly weak compared to the other healers. We do not have the flash heals or strong buffs of Zealot, nor the group healing and sustainability of DoKs. While people like to point out Shaman is good at kiting, kiting does not really give any consistent advantage. Being able to live longer has no meaning if you can’t do your job as a healer meanwhile, and taking a healer out of the equation is a net win for the enemy. I do not agree that being able to kite well is a good “niche” if you can neither heal your party nor kill your pursuer while running.

Shaman lacks a niche, and while the career mechanic pushes the class towards a hybrid playstyle, adhering to it just makes me a crappy healer and a crappy damage dealer. Therefore, I propose the following change:

Emphasised career mechanic
Upon reaching 5 stacks of Gork or Mork, give abilities an extra effect. For example, upon reaching 5 stacks of Mork, make an ability such as the AP steal undefendable or reduce the cost. Achieving this still requires 5 specific casts prior so a significant investment is needed. Additionally, due to the planning involved, if several abilities had a similar concept attached to them, it would no longer be viable to ignore the Shaman’s career mechanic. Simply put, in addition to reduced cast time and increased effectiveness due to having stacks of Mork or Gork, consider adding increased duration, reduced cost, deal true damage, be undefendable, etc.. as possible effects upon reaching 5 stacks or less. Cost reduction could potentially alleviate the AP issues this class has, too.

Would this be a reasonable change for people? Would base abilities have to be toned down in order to merit having a stronger effect if invested in? Opinions and suggestions are welcome.

Thanks to Lileldys for the idea.

[Lileldys]

I won't take credit for the idea, its been looming around the forums for a good year, I'll take credit for pushing you to post for some changes though.

Right now, Shaman needs something to bring to a group outside of kiting. Resists buff and the Toughness from HoT are negated by Chosen auras. It feels like the Shaman can only really bring the Snare pit. Useful in RvR, not so much in SCs imo. Burst Healing from "Ain't done yet!" Feels pretty weak, seeing that DoK can just "Khaine's Embrace" for a similar effect, and targets that low are more than likely dead from executes and morale dumps.

AP is pretty much solved with AM by Wild Healing proc, which basically has 100% uptime. Shaman doesn't get access to this, something that could help out if they got it instead of the current "Pass it on".

Career mechanic is known to be total garbage for a while now, and adding effects to skills seems to be the main recommendation that people have given in the past.

AP drain already doesn't get an effect with the Mechanic, but I think there is something to look at here. Currently, from what I see, there is no reason to use any skill to drop you stacks, with the exception of the "Da Green" path "You got nuthin!". But with high disrupts on healers, its a 50/50 at best.

It could be possible that the skills with no modifiers from career mechanic can offer unique bonuses @ 5pts/stacks of either Gork or Mork.

The biggest hurdle you have here is what effect do you give each skill at 5pts?
AP drain Undefendable? Always give 180AP regardless of targets AP pool? Hit a random 2nd target nearby?
Snare pit cleansing like in the other thread from a few days ago? Larger AoE? Dare I say a stronger snare?
"Do sumfin useful" could get a bit of love here too, being unaffected by mechanic, maybe a cleanse on cast.

Would this allow for Shaman to get by without a Wild Healing equivalent tactic by AP draining at 5pts all the time? Would it limit your want to use the other skills knowing you need 5pts for AP drain?
Would the same treatment be given to AM and have no need for Wild Healing?

There's a lot of questions to ask on this topic, it's a pretty big topic really.
Only issue I personally see, is that some of the really really good shamans may get near unkillable with some of these changes, but worth a try imo.

[Bretin]

buffing AP drain to be undefendable or adding cleanse on pit would be OP as ****.

[Lileldys]

buffing AP drain to be undefendable or adding cleanse on pit would be OP as ****.

It might be "OP as ****" but Shaman needs a bit of loving, or you can just keep on taking double DoK.

[Tesq]

shammy/am meccanic make not worth using anything offensive while healing that take more than 0,5 sec to cast as that's the reduction you get x point. So basically you use only lifetaps and only those.

Which mean the meccanic right now have 2x problem, not proportianal point assignation and no ap reduction. If i use a 2 sec cast offensive spell it only give me a 0,5 reduction which is not nice.
Another problem it's that there's not any switch tool like for exemple the BO/SM one

[Bretin]

It might be "OP as ****" but Shaman needs a bit of loving, or you can just keep on taking double DoK.

your PoV is a bit odd tbh. Shaman is in a perfect spot and the first choice when it comes to a rdps setup. he is 1:1 what the AM is for order.

even if you would give the shaman all the suggested buffs and make him OP in a certain way it wouldn't change the fact that 2 DoKs would still be BiS for a melee setup since they:

a.) have the better aoe heal
b.) have the better cleanse
c.) have 2 oh **** buttons with m2
d.) have more defensive
e.) provide 2 damage procs with 1 snare component
f.) can heal more under pressure - and that's the most important fact

[Thayli]

your PoV is a bit odd tbh. Shaman is in a perfect spot and the first choice when it comes to a rdps setup. he is 1:1 what the AM is for order.

even if you would give the shaman all the suggested buffs and make him OP in a certain way it wouldn't change the fact that 2 DoKs would still be BiS for a melee setup since they:

a.) have the better aoe heal
b.) have the better cleanse
c.) have 2 oh **** buttons with m2
d.) have more defensive
e.) provide 2 damage procs with 1 snare component
f.) can heal more under pressure - and that's the most important fact

I disagree that with you stating that Shaman is a 1:1 equavalent of Archmage and here is why:

- Wild Healing: objectively easier to proc and stronger. 50% reduced costs for 10 seconds is much, MUCH stronger than receiving 40 AP over 3s (which can't proc more than once over those 3s and requires a significant amount of heal crit to consistently proc. You need more raw crit stats to get value out of the Shaman equivalent compared to Wild Healing, which forces you to also slot Extra Special Mushrooms.)

- AP Management: due to the point above, as well as the Transfer Magic tactic, Archmage has both more options and stronger options to slot in AP regain mechanics. Shaman only has Restorative burst and an AP steal which is quite bad if getting more AP is the focus. (Archmage has both of these too, mind you.)

- Scatter the Winds: a healing debuff which is also a dot. Shaman equivalent spreads out the damage over several targets instead, which is worse if you want to do damage to a single target.

- Cleanse: shaman has mainly ailments, which Archmage can cleanse. Archmage uses mainly hexes, which Shaman cannot cleanse. So far, every Archmage I've met in a 1-on-1 scenario has been unkillable, while they certainly are able to kill me. I get that class balance is not something that revolves around 1 vs 1, but if you indicate that both classes are equivalent, this point does hold some value.

Isha's Ward and Blinding Light: these two can be very strong if used right. Shaman has no equivalent. In my opinion, the only better morale Shaman has is Gork Sez Stop, which has significant counterplay.

I do agree that it's probably more sensible to tone down DoK/WP a little bit, or at least give them a more defined weakness as opposed to their defined strengths. But I do not feel Shaman is in a good position at all. Are they bad? No, but they certainly aren't on par with the others, and in my opinion, not on par with the order equivalent either.

[Ramasee]

I havent played shaman since warhammer's launch. But I have played Archmage, and I have theorycrafted for shamans. This is why you will see some of my terms be the archmage equivalent.

Adding additional effects per ability would take a significant amount of developer time; and also it is something (unless it has changed) they are unable to do currently. So my suggestion is slightly more mild and as such is perhaps a better base to start with changing the less than ideal mastery but keeping its intent somewhat.

Mastery effects are the same as now except abilities that consume tranquility have 20% less AP cost per tranquility. Abilities that consume force have an additional 3% chance to critically hit per force.

This way primary healing shamans/AMs get essentially free offensive spells when using their mechanic. Offensive shamans get a better chance at one good healing ability when using their mechanic, even if they have divine fury slotted.

As for Yer Not So Bad. Simplest fix would to not make it a steal. Instead it applies a blessing or enchantment on the shaman that restores AP, while also applying the ailment/hex on the target. That way the shaman and am always get their AP unless cleansed via offensive dispel, but the opponent can disrupt/block/cleanse the AP removal off of themselves.

Also I would change Burst of Waaagh!. As the tactic that is supposed to be for hybrid-focused AMs/Shaman, it is quite lackluster, specially given that it only works on direct ability critical hits. As such I would change it to
Burst O' Waaagh! - Whenever you are at max force, 75% of your intelligence, magic crit, and spell power is converted to willpower, healing crit, and healing power. Whenever you are at max tranquility, this is reversed.

[Thayli]

I havent played shaman since warhammer's launch. But I have played Archmage, and I have theorycrafted for shamans. This is why you will see some of my terms be the archmage equivalent.

Adding additional effects per ability would take a significant amount of developer time; and also it is something (unless it has changed) they are unable to do currently. So my suggestion is slightly more mild and as such is perhaps a better base to start with changing the less than ideal mastery but keeping its intent somewhat.

Mastery effects are the same as now except abilities that consume tranquility have 20% less AP cost per tranquility. Abilities that consume force have an additional 3% chance to critically hit per force.

This way primary healing shamans/AMs get essentially free offensive spells when using their mechanic. Offensive shamans get a better chance at one good healing ability when using their mechanic, even if they have divine fury slotted.

As for Yer Not So Bad. Simplest fix would to not make it a steal. Instead it applies a blessing or enchantment on the shaman that restores AP, while also applying the ailment/hex on the target. That way the shaman and am always get their AP unless cleansed via offensive dispel, but the opponent can disrupt/block/cleanse the AP removal off of themselves.

Also I would change Burst of Waaagh!. As the tactic that is supposed to be for hybrid-focused AMs/Shaman, it is quite lackluster, specially given that it only works on direct ability critical hits. As such I would change it to
Burst O' Waaagh! - Whenever you are at max force, 75% of your intelligence, magic crit, and spell power is converted to willpower, healing crit, and healing power. Whenever you are at max tranquility, this is reversed.

I'm actually in favor of these changes. They seem a good compromise between juicing up the class a little and cutting down on dev time towards implementing significant changes.

The changes to the career mechanic would certainly favor those who prefer a hybrid playstyle (which is what Shaman is supposed to be anyways) and could potentially alleviate the AP problems the class has. I hadn't considered making Yer Not So Bad not a steal. Splitting up the spell into both a defensive buff and offensive debuff would make it much less of a double edged sword, while at the same time allowing for counterplay still. I really like this suggestion.

Shaman has some other minor problems that are not unique to them (pretty much every class has a couple of almost entirely useless abilities and tactics), but a career mechanic improvement and a tweak to Yer Not So Bad by implementing the changes you suggested would certainly make Shaman a little better at competing with the other healer classes.

[Morf]

Imo shamans dont need a buff as such just need to bring more to the group same with am's, if u give shamans more unique stuff that benefits just them they become even harder to kill when played right, same situation for am's you give them buffs that only the am benefits from you have an even more OP dps am.

1 thing i would like to see is magical infusion and shrug it off affect your whole group not just 1 player, this would mean nothing to the solo hard to kill shaman or the solo dps am but to a group could be a good change, its not much really but its a little something that would help heal shamans and am's.

Now main problem for shamans is ap, i never had such problems on live in sov/warpforged armor but i dont think having to equip an armor set to make up for class issues fixes the problem, am's dont suffer from this as they have wild healing, i would go as far to say just get rid of pass it on tactic and mirror wild healing to shamans, this cant be done right now but when it can it would solve alot of issues shamans have in group play.

As for the career mechanics i dont really know what would work best, after all sham and am are suppose to be hybrid dps healers, would the right thing be to make them viable in this regard ? or just to make the mechanics more favourable to the role you play ? so you dont gain a dps boost as a healer and vice versa.

Also Bretin range setups on destro dont work like they do on order, this isnt necessary down to destro classes but order classes and 3 skills in-particular pounce, eye shot and stop drop and roll, all a shaman brings is an aoe snare, double dok is just so much better, no need for a shaman especially as bo's bring a spamable aoe snare.