Balance premade and random teams

[Zealote]

Think it's relevant so I'll quote myself and link the thread:

Spoiler:

There was an balancing system ages ago iirc but I assume there was some issue with it. The lack of one does make the whole premade vs pug thing even worse though; just yesterday Porn Factory was rolling over pugs over and over with 5/6 players, while order was getting, e.g., 1 Grace WP vs 3 heal DoKs, 2 dps AMs that refused to heal at all (slightly harder to solve that one), 1 2h tank.

As you say, even with a balanced comp you're more often gonna lose than not, but at least it might be a more interesting fight (people, me included, just kept going afk after wiping; two did right at the start in one of them as soon as they saw the dessie names).

I think your idea about varying rewards -including higher rewards when it's pre vs pre- is an interesting one. One possible problem is sth Jaycub mentioned elsewhere: more competitive groups will still just roll over people who party up more casually with friends etc. Anything that encourages group vs group and discourages pugstomping is worth thinking about and trying though imo.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15535&hilit

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If you dont put in the work to make a premade your self (wich is extremely easy btw!) be ready to get shrekt.
This whining about premades have to stop.
You think us premades enjoy farming pugs?
Cuz we actually dont, its much more fun having some competion instead of one shotting a whole squad of random roleplaying casual pugs who cba to put in the minor effort to get a group for them selfs.

We might disagree on this point, but I think pugging and premades should both be accepted ways of playing, so we should try to balance it as much as possible with both in mind, rather than just insulting people who pug and saying they should get a group (note: PuGs are groups, what they aren't is premades).

[Dalgrimar]

We might disagree on this point, but I think pugging and premades should both be accepted ways of playing, so we should try to balance it as much as possible with both in mind, rather than just insulting people who pug and saying they should get a group (note: PuGs are groups, what they aren't is premades).

I never insulted pugs.
All what i keep saying is, dont make whine posts about premades when you as a player dont want to put in the minor work to make a premade your self.

[Azarael]

Just popping in to say that the "just make a premade!" guys are missing the point as usual

- Casuals will not make a premade no matter how many times you say it - this is the reality - deal with it
- Casuals are not here because they want to play to your standard
- You have to accomodate casuals - they don't have to accomodate you - as they are by far the dominant force and they are the engine that powers every single video game
- Therefore they should not have to face top premades

[Zealote]

I never insulted pugs.
All what i keep saying is, dont make whine posts about premades when you as a player dont want to put in the minor work to make a premade your self.

Re-reading it, you're right, you didn't explicity insult them; I guess the tone of it just sounded insulting to me:

random roleplaying casual pugs who cba to put in the minor effort to get a group for them selfs.

[Dalgrimar]

Just popping in to say that the "just make a premade!" guys are missing the point as usual

- Casuals will not make a premade no matter how many times you say it - this is the reality - deal with it
- Casuals are not here because they want to play to your standard
- You have to accomodate casuals - they don't have to accomodate you - as they are by far the dominant force and they are the engine that powers every single video game

Im not here to play to casual standards neither.
And if you say we have to accomodate casuals while they dont have to accomodate to premades maybe it is time for you as a dev to review the base idea of WAR retail?
Premade/good players will allways be the backbone of a proper PvP MMO.
And if casuals dont want to make a premade they shouldnt whine about premades neither as this is a MMO wich relies around GROUP PLAY.
If people like to solo thats totally fine but there will allways be premades in a MMO and if you like to play solo in a MMO than you should be ready to face premades.
MMO = Masively MULTIPLAYER Online

[jojomen]

Yeah you actually dont ,than why the hell premades didnt do SC objective to fast end of SC - instead they farm pugs 20 min in row to get 20+ kills each.
OFC you didnt liar -maybe troll - but not liar no no . we all belive you.

[Azarael]

Since when have good players ever been the backbone of anything aside from their own competitive scenes?

Every single game on the planet that is a success accomodates casuals. Some of those games go so far in accomodating casuals that they take steps to eradicate competitive and skilled players (GTA is an example). For every good player of a game, there are 100 casuals or more.

I've seen people like you in UT, years ago. People who depend upon casual and weaker players to populate their games and give them an audience and people to crush, but who then turn around and denounce those players as trash as soon as those casuals stop wanting to play ball because they're getting hammered.

There's a reason matchmaking systems exist in good games and it's to stop exactly this kind of thing: where players who constitute the majority stop having fun because they're getting dominated. THAT is the real problem here, not the nature of casual players, who are and likely will always be what they are. Take them or leave them.

[Fousek]

Dont blame players blame the game... if game allows you to roflstomp pugs as premade group its not your fault its game flaw.

In proper match making win ratio shuld be 40-60%.
If someone have 80-100% win ratio that means he is the BEST on the server OR there is something wrong with system.

I hope devs on this server gonna addres this problem better than devs on live servers.

Back in the day on server where i was playing destro was winning 80% of SCs and attacked Altdorf almost every day. (more pvp guilds and better coordinated premades on destro side?). In short time it created HUGE GEAR GAP and people started playing alts in lower tiers instead of T4, x-realming or leaving the game. End of story server died and got merged.

Its understandable.
Try to farm 450 or even more medas for ONE piece of gear when you loosing 80% of games and it takes 5-10 min between SCs and 10-15 min in SC... after 25 minutes as looser you get 1 medal. next to zero renown and zero fun. Very quickly you gonna realise there is plenty of things that are more enjoyable to spend your time on than playing WAR.

As winning team you get 5 medals a plenty of renown and alot of fun. Lets be real most fun i ever had in SC was match where we stomped bunch of undergeared players and i got 14k rr w/o any effort and oposing team got almost nothing.

Remember it is fun but its no longer game if you cannot loose.

[Charon]

If you dont put in the work to make a premade your self (wich is extremely easy btw!) be ready to get shrekt.
This whining about premades have to stop.
You think us premades enjoy farming pugs?
Cuz we actually dont, its much more fun having some competion instead of one shotting a whole squad of random roleplaying casual pugs who cba to put in the minor effort to get a group for them selfs.

lol

yeeee but you enjoy easy emblem farm - don't you.( I know you have to defend your hunting ground;))

from (mostly) pug sc player perspective - t4 sc its nightmare not entertainment. Imbalance is huge issue and need to be addressed - if not t4 sc soon will be a dead zone.

In my opinion - firstly devs should create separate bracket for 40lv chars only to split (40lev premades) and low level (32-39lv) chars.

[Azarael]

Dont blame players blame the game... if game allows you to roflstomp pugs as premade group its not your fault its game flaw.

In proper match making win ratio shuld be 40-60%.
If someone have 80-100% win ratio that means he is the BEST on the server OR there is something wrong with system.

I hope devs on this server gonna addres this problem better than devs on live servers.

The player pool is too small for us to take the hit of attempting complex matchmaking.