Balance premade and random teams

[Azarael]

ELO Matchmaking rarely works in games, partly because people learn to game the system and also there are too many other issues, population + archetypes + group Q vs Solo Q.

Seperating Qs will not work, because then every group Q SC becomes Caledor Woods where only a few groups actually Q it. And it would have the effect of dumbing down the game where some of the group players will start to solo Q because it's fast and easy.

I get that we need casuals for the game's population but I think it's better if players are guided towards playing in groups, both by the playerbase and the game itself. Why can't casuals group?

What about a casual premade Q that works something like a dungeoun Q in games where you Q up for a certain role? This Q would be a Q for a group and not for a SC, after the group is formed they can Q for SC. That way you have three ways to Q SC, Premade group, Qed "casual" group, and solo. Obviously this casual group would have to wait a little while for members, but at least it would guide players towards better play and not try to solve the problem by dumbing the whole thing down.

You could also force this by restricting the scenario queues - eliminating the concept of solo queueing and forcing players to join in a party of 3 or 6. Not only is this easier to handle serverside compared to 1-6 variable composition, it allows for easier balancing of scenario roles.

That or co-opting the "Join Solo" option to implement what you suggest.

[Vigfuss]

ELO Matchmaking rarely works in games, partly because people learn to game the system and also there are too many other issues, population + archetypes + group Q vs Solo Q.

Seperating Qs will not work, because then every group Q SC becomes Caledor Woods where only a few groups actually Q it. And it would have the effect of dumbing down the game where some of the group players will start to solo Q because it's fast and easy.

I get that we need casuals for the game's population but I think it's better if players are guided towards playing in groups, both by the playerbase and the game itself. Why can't casuals group?

What about a casual premade Q that works something like a dungeoun Q in games where you Q up for a certain role? This Q would be a Q for a group and not for a SC, after the group is formed they can Q for SC. That way you have three ways to Q SC, Premade group, Qed "casual" group, and solo. Obviously this casual group would have to wait a little while for members, but at least it would guide players towards better play and not try to solve the problem by dumbing the whole thing down.

You could also force this by restricting the scenario queues - eliminating the concept of solo queueing and forcing players to join in a party of 3 or 6. Not only is this easier to handle serverside compared to 1-6 variable composition, it allows for easier balancing of scenario roles.

That or co-opting the "Join Solo" option to implement what you suggest.

I didn't think you would want to do it that way because of the delays it would create for the average solo DPS player, but yeah i think that would work better than what I suggested.

[Charon]

show me a screenie then. if you group with korze, you'll see 9 times out of 10 he just afks in those sorts of scenarios - ask any of us who actually, y'know, play with him.

seriously mate !!! who are you trying to fool?

[powerheads]

i like playing solo. and all i do in that game is farming for professions and qeuing scenarios. Dont like groups, there is many reasons. one of them and main reason is that i dont like similar gameplay as it is when we have premade. And i like competitive gameplay.
Gm's just have to pay attention on 'Join Solo' or 'Joing as a group' make it work in that way, so when you pick 'as a group' you will join to only group matching, not with pugs. It would be fair. couples and trios its fair enough.
It seems to be obvious. Those guys just want to humiliate someone. Its not competitive. Its not fair. They just expecting to meet pug and farm it. its the only reason groups are made here for scenarios.
Dont you think so?

[Abraxus]

I think what might solve the issue is regardless if its prem vs pug, have the rewards be based off the point disparity instead of which team gets to 500 first. I've played plenty of scens where we've lost 20 to 500 and Ive wasted 5 minutes, get zero rewards, while the winner gets all of them? It's not my fault for getting in to a group where the tank is the dps and there are no healers while the other side has balance and 4+ healers. They are going to win, regardless of numbers! However, farming for points makes the scen more enjoyable even if the losing side knows they will both lose AND get a reward for actually playing the game! The closer the disparity, the greater the reward. The losers will get some emblems, the winners get more. But if the game is 20 to 500, the winner should get 1 the loser zero, or both get 1 because that match wasn't even a game! It was masturbating. Change the rewards and we'll have more people que if they know they won't be wasting time.

[Afterlife92]

show me a screenie then. if you group with korze, you'll see 9 times out of 10 he just afks in those sorts of scenarios - ask any of us who actually, y'know, play with him.

I have to say this is 100% true anyone who knows or atleast played with Korze knows this is true !

[Morf]

show me a screenie then. if you group with korze, you'll see 9 times out of 10 he just afks in those sorts of scenarios - ask any of us who actually, y'know, play with him.

more strawman blablabla. never said anything of the sort. we have different opinions and you immediately tar us with the 'elitist!' brush, nice one *golfclap* that weren't predictable at all. difference between your ilk and me/dalgri is that we believe everyone should be able to have fun in the game (as you do), but provided they put some bloody effort into it. too much care bearing going on which could be easily resolved on an individual level, that's just the truth.

nah if anything players just don't like dying to more organised teams: you only have to watch kweedko's stream, or join a scenario as a premade and do nothing but win the game and 99% of the time you'll have some smartass make a jibe against premades at the game's conclusion. WAR is salty as hell compared to many other games.

Why would i take a ss of such bs ? i dont even take ss of sc scores because i dont care, you need to calm down and face facts, you act like an asshole at times and like to act as if you and other premades are more important then the average player, this isnt and will never be the case and i say this as a premade player myself, the sooner you understand this the better it will be, you will no longer have to post in every premade v pug topic defending premades from attacks .

Saltyness is rolling an engi called pornfactory when you have problems with a guild called pornfactory as some sort of taunt towards them, just saying.

anyway, idk what you are trying to do making out i am making strawman arguments/points, im saying what i see and what is pretty obvious to everyone, im sorry you are unable to see this and i hope you can see sense at somepoint and no longer have to bring a defensive mindset to debates in the future, im not trying to be an asshole to you, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

[roadkillrobin]

You could also force this by restricting the scenario queues - eliminating the concept of solo queueing and forcing players to join in a party of 3 or 6. Not only is this easier to handle serverside compared to 1-6 variable composition, it allows for easier balancing of scenario roles.

That or co-opting the "Join Solo" option to implement what you suggest.

The problem with forcing people to join as a group is that people who are well geared, higher renown etz will always be picked over someone like for example a r36 rr34 with Sentinel gear. That will just lead to lower ranked players have even harder time to lvl up. And that will push people away once they reach t4.
(just like it did on live ) Not everyone have a strong guild to carry them. I can see the LFG chat looking like this : LF r40rr40+ healer for scenarios.

I've also sugested before that maybe a 6man premade in 12v12 scenario might just be to big of a group when ballancing pug vs premade. Maybe it should be 3man groups for group ques instead?

[Begamil]

I think it would be huge to just make it so solo players go in one que and grouped player go in another. Classes has not that much of an impact in pug scenarios as premade ones. It would just be nice to know that i fight against another pug group not a premade that has 6 of the best classes for 6vs6 and sit on teamspeak tryharding. What sucsessful game has that kind of system that allows more skilled and geared players to fight against qasuals. There is a reason global elite players don't go up against silvers in CSGO. But I guess this is going to be fixed somehow when more players join the server, just a matter of time.
And to those that say just group up come on guys, that will litterly never happen so just forget about it.

[peterthepan3]

show me a screenie then. if you group with korze, you'll see 9 times out of 10 he just afks in those sorts of scenarios - ask any of us who actually, y'know, play with him.

more strawman blablabla. never said anything of the sort. we have different opinions and you immediately tar us with the 'elitist!' brush, nice one *golfclap* that weren't predictable at all. difference between your ilk and me/dalgri is that we believe everyone should be able to have fun in the game (as you do), but provided they put some bloody effort into it. too much care bearing going on which could be easily resolved on an individual level, that's just the truth.

nah if anything players just don't like dying to more organised teams: you only have to watch kweedko's stream, or join a scenario as a premade and do nothing but win the game and 99% of the time you'll have some smartass make a jibe against premades at the game's conclusion. WAR is salty as hell compared to many other games.

Why would i take a ss of such bs ? i dont even take ss of sc scores because i dont care, you need to calm down and face facts, you act like an asshole at times and like to act as if you and other premades are more important then the average player, this isnt and will never be the case and i say this as a premade player myself, the sooner you understand this the better it will be, you will no longer have to post in every premade v pug topic defending premades from attacks .

Saltyness is rolling an engi called pornfactory when you have problems with a guild called pornfactory as some sort of taunt towards them, just saying.

anyway, idk what you are trying to do making out i am making strawman arguments/points, im saying what i see and what is pretty obvious to everyone, im sorry you are unable to see this and i hope you can see sense at somepoint and no longer have to bring a defensive mindset to debates in the future, im not trying to be an asshole to you, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

If you're gonna make accusations against someone when several other people will refute them, you should have evidence - especially when it's against my own family.

You've been a premade player for how many weeks now? You're deliberately just being provocative and throwing me and dalgri in with the stereotypical 'elitist pug hating i am so much better than you!' crap despite us having not said anything like that in this topic, so yeah you're right I will be agitated especially when it's from a person who has had a reputation for badmouthing and whining about premades.

Actually that was a bit of fun (Pornfactory), bunch of guildies on discord late night and we were thinking of funny alts. I thought it was funny, as did they. out of respect, i stopped playing it guess you're wrong on that front, too.

Nothing against you, you're a sound guy, but this drivel outta nowhere is uncalled for.

@Begamil
If people don't change their ways, why must the game be tailored around such arrogance? If people can't even group up then there is no hope.