Proc/Active Renown abillties

[Nekkma]

Basic RD is 5 min cd vs in practice 1 min on FM. Pretty comparable if you ask me. The passive options benefit different classes differently and the argument can for sure be made that they unbalance the game.

[roadkillrobin]

RD/CW allow smaller groups to fight against greater numbers in the lakes too. Also RD creates an extra element to take into account in 6v6 which can be fun depending on your stance.

as long as TB stays out that's cool =)

You mean it gives smaller groups a better chance to run away without getting caught in the lakes. As for 6v6 moast inofficial tournaments i saw on live there was a strict no Active Renown abillties and no Heal Potion policy. But that might have changed by the end of the game.

Basic RD is 5 min cd vs in practice 1 min on FM. Pretty comparable if you ask me. The passive options benefit different classes differently and the argument can for sure be made that they unbalance the game.

Do all classes have acess to FM???? No coz that wouldn't be ballanced. Do all classes have acesss to Resolute Defence, Yes. thats not ballanced. Also every passive renown abillity you can acess from gear on all classes.

[Nekkma]

Because adding 28% parry/block benefit all classes equal or is there maybe one archetype who basically depends on these two stats to fully benefit from their defining ability, i.e. guard? Would we even see 2handed tanks without dodge/disrupt and parry passives in the current state?

[saupreusse]

If the argument is that resolute defense creates class inbalance then consider this...

If there was no resolute defense, more players would put points into crit chance... contributing further to class imbalance by making crit reliant classes like WH/BW even stronger.

With such low renown atm, you have to pick and choose what you rather have... a resolute defense on a 2 min cooldown or 9% more crit. A class like a BW would prolly pick crit (unless they really hate dying).

It's when you get closer to 80 cap and 100 cap that these abilities become really strong, but atm they are pretty balanced given the choices that are available. Shall we complain about how parry and dodge/disrupt renown passives create class imbalance?

I absolutely agree with the OP. My shadow warrior has no right to have RD or a cleanse. but i have to skill them both to stay "competitive", because every melee on the enemy realm uses at least RD. its so strong that it has become a requirement on every Melee DD - and is the death sentence for most kiter classes. if you manage to survive the cc immunity, well done, but most of the time you are screwed. it also makes a lot of cheese tactics possible. (like pull and RD)

We had some discussions in the guild and someone came up with the idea to make certain renown skills class restricted. Like RD only for tanks. but that was just brainstorming.

This seems to me like a 1v1 complaint. Aza himself says that the game won't be balanced around 1v1. Considering the SW has a rkd, a self punt, stance switch to gives 100% armor, a 4 second melee disarm if a melee does indeed get to you, morale 1 punt, etc... you shouldn't have to much of a problem surviving against a group with your own group so long as you know how to play and your tank knows how to guard. Hell, your tank would be wise to use RD when you're thrown in that situation so that he doesn't get punted which leaves you alive... I've done this numerous times on my tank to great effect.

RD can not only be used offensively, but defensively as well.

You said that pull+RD is a cheese tactic but you can easily stop that through your own RD or using glass arrow and getting out of range.

it is a complaint regardless of 1v1 or 6v6. Bretin did know his stuff just right. Runnin two Maras with RD they just rolled over the Ranged classes. And ofc I feel it in duels, i know you don't want to hear it, but whenever a melee has RD up im most likely getting smoked. Having RD skilled myself makes my chance to survive much higher, so yes i would recommend it on nearly every class because its just super powerful. I would even say its neccessairy. (maybe not on tanks)

[Danielle]

If the argument is that resolute defense creates class inbalance then consider this...

If there was no resolute defense, more players would put points into crit chance... contributing further to class imbalance by making crit reliant classes like WH/BW even stronger.

With such low renown atm, you have to pick and choose what you rather have... a resolute defense on a 2 min cooldown or 9% more crit. A class like a BW would prolly pick crit (unless they really hate dying).

It's when you get closer to 80 cap and 100 cap that these abilities become really strong, but atm they are pretty balanced given the choices that are available. Shall we complain about how parry and dodge/disrupt renown passives create class imbalance?

I absolutely agree with the OP. My shadow warrior has no right to have RD or a cleanse. but i have to skill them both to stay "competitive", because every melee on the enemy realm uses at least RD. its so strong that it has become a requirement on every Melee DD - and is the death sentence for most kiter classes. if you manage to survive the cc immunity, well done, but most of the time you are screwed. it also makes a lot of cheese tactics possible. (like pull and RD)

We had some discussions in the guild and someone came up with the idea to make certain renown skills class restricted. Like RD only for tanks. but that was just brainstorming.

This seems to me like a 1v1 complaint. Aza himself says that the game won't be balanced around 1v1. Considering the SW has a rkd, a self punt, stance switch to gives 100% armor, a 4 second melee disarm if a melee does indeed get to you, morale 1 punt, etc... you shouldn't have to much of a problem surviving against a group with your own group so long as you know how to play and your tank knows how to guard. Hell, your tank would be wise to use RD when you're thrown in that situation so that he doesn't get punted which leaves you alive... I've done this numerous times on my tank to great effect.

RD can not only be used offensively, but defensively as well.

You said that pull+RD is a cheese tactic but you can easily stop that through your own RD or using glass arrow and getting out of range.

it is a complaint regardless of 1v1 or 6v6. Bretin did know his stuff just right. Runnin two Maras with RD they just rolled over the Ranged classes. And ofc I feel it in duels, i know you don't want to hear it, but whenever a melee has RD up im most likely getting smoked. Having RD skilled myself makes my chance to survive much higher, so yes i would recommend it on nearly every class because its just super powerful.

But you don't even need RD to roll over the ranged classes with 2 maras, it's going to happen anyway. Why would you spend 10 renown points on a matchup where your composition is by default and assuming even player skill like 90% to win already? The balance state of Mara/WL is super bad and squishy healers and ranged feel it the worst. That's pretty much a Mara/WL issue, only slightly related to RD.

[Toldavf]

I really love my cleansing winds. It gives me a fighting chance when solo and has saved me from death in orvr more times than i can remember. You just pick up so many dots and debuffs in rvr it would be a shame to loose it.

[roadkillrobin]

I really love my cleansing winds. It gives me a fighting chance when solo and has saved me from death in orvr more times than i can remember. You just pick up so many dots and debuffs in rvr it would be a shame to loose it.

That is what healers in this game is for, all classes shouldn't be able to do those things.

[Toldavf]

I really love my cleansing winds. It gives me a fighting chance when solo and has saved me from death in orvr more times than i can remember. You just pick up so many dots and debuffs in rvr it would be a shame to loose it.

That is what healers in this game is for, all classes shouldn't be able to do those things.

Most healers won't cope with the 40+ dots you can pick up at keeps the fact is to even try and get a kill a melee must reach the enemy and that means taking the deluge of bw, sw, am and engie dots not to mention any dots and snare from any melee once you reach your target.

[Azarael]

A core problem I have with these skills is that, like potions and item bonuses, they rob us of the ability to perform finer class balance using the concepts that they represent. If you want a particular concept, you should be required to use a particular group spec which enables it.

Take something like Quick Escape. That concept could easily be represented as either a tactic or skill, group-affecting or single target, which would provoke the effect, and put onto an underperforming class or spec. Absorb pots? Same. CW? Same. RD? Yep. When you take novel concepts and give every class access to them without much of a sacrifice involved, if any, you lose an opportunity to increase the degree of class diversity and balance in the game.

This is one part of the argument. The other part of the argument for holding back or restricting access to some things is that there are elements which either change base game state (Odjira / QE speed bonuses mean that the average speed rises and this has knock-on effects, especially when considering melee class time to gap close, spells with build times and immobilizations/knockdowns), or mask serious issues (Trivial Blows). Neither should be entertained before the fine balance stage.

The priority should be:

- Class abilities/tactics/morales and specs
- Renown abilities
- Item abilities/effects.

Any concept which exists within the latter two should be ripped out and used in the first to effect greater variety in specs and balance.

[roadkillrobin]

Azarael nailed it there, it's exactly the point i was trying to make.
I didn't bring up the potion thing coz i think it''s own topic. But I have pretty much the same feeling towards them.