Casual friendliness, the atmosphere of WAR, solo play

[Cimba]

That's the thing, a leader who just invites a bunch of people does not really cost him anything, so he shouldn't get extra rewards. A leader, who puts the effort into organizing people and guiding them, deserves extra rewards. Have you ever led an open warband? The effort is colossal, the amount of bullshit you deal with - just so. Basically, extra rewards would lead to people WANTING to lead warbands well. Unfortunately you are right, it does not prevent some people from earning rewards just because they invited someone, but let's face it, that's 1 guy. How much does 1 guy having higher contribution affect your chances of getting genesis?

Depends on if you are that guy or not. If I can improve my chances of getting genesis by 85% than the purpose of genesis being extremely hard to get is compromised. And if you implent such a system you can count on the fact that the organized players will take advantage of it.

Shamans more often than not have the range to jump you, unless you pull of lightning fast reflexes. Maybe you are onto something here, reduction of range?

And the problem here is that you cannot pick your fights. The only people roaming in the rvr lakes are shamans, squigs and WEs, who will kill you and prevent you from playing unless you're grouped up, with friends and organized.

Either you have a very bad PC and therefore low clipping range, your movement patterns are **** or you're daydreaming in a pvp area because everytime a shaman or squig catches me it's because I **** up. And no I don't have fast reflexes, one of the reasons I play MMOs...

I also think you have an interesting understanding of playing in a pvp area. If someone kills you he prevents you from playing? What exactly do you want to accomplish in that area then? I for one go there to hit people on the head.

Yes, I've happened upon two premades before. 1 out of every 2-3 scenarios. The other 3 are literally unplayable because I cannot cause damage or even get out of my spawn. I accept that it may be less of an issue than I make it out to be, but I don't like it that much that it's an issue of random chance whether a scenario is for afking in or actually playing.

When I play solo I would guess my win ratio is somewhere around 60%. With group it depends a bit on setup, players and opposition but I would guess it's between 70-100%. But to be honest the reason my solo rate is so high is because in solo scs alot of people don't have clue what they are doing.

[Ghostweed]

@Vandoles

Well, I should explain further,

Easy isn't easy, u have to have right gear and rr setup and tactics/mastery - bw will kill DPS shammy if he fail on Cleansing Wind, SW will burst shammy down if he fails on RD and/or LoS management, 2-h IB/SM bash shammy to death if he fails in positioning and rotation, full heal WP easily laughs is shammy fails on burst timing and mastery/tactics usage and finally, Slayers shattered limbs+snare/kB immunity usual ends bad for gobbo.

To ur point: kinda, I would like to see shammy as on par healer with Mork build and as solid ganker in Gork/Green build.

[Dabbart]

In terms of SCs, it's BYOH/G. Bring your own healer/guard. If not then don't expect it. Awesome when you get it, but you are actively entering an SC with no healer or guard, and hoping that the magical faeries will take care of it for you. Hope is not a plan.

For WBs... It's not just open WBs mate. The single player FPS mentality is quite prevalent across the game. Even in the best group, calls to regroup and "damnit fall back!" Occur. One should also always remember that this is an international server, and not everyone speaks English....

I suggest you just boot those that don't listen. Open the WB to everyone until you get 2 full parties, then close the WB and post in /2 to whisp for an inv so you can screen classes. There is ZERO point in having a full WB that has 2 healers. Add those that listen or are effective to your friends list, and you will quickly have a base group that you can somewhat rely on, and just hope the pugs follow your lead....


Thanks for leading open WBs though. It is a very tough gig that very few people do. And though they often take a lt of ****, and have been known to rage out at times, it's a position that the game desperately needs. So please don't give up.

[Vandoles]

Depends on if you are that guy or not. If I can improve my chances of getting genesis by 85% than the purpose of genesis being extremely hard to get is compromised. And if you implent such a system you can count on the fact that the organized players will take advantage of it.

It's not 85%, the roll is still random, you're just adding a few numbers to it.

And I don't mind people from organized guilds, willing to put the effort and sacrifice in, to lead open WBs and get the fragments.

Either you have a very bad PC and therefore low clipping range, your movement patterns are **** or you're daydreaming in a pvp area because everytime a shaman or squig catches me it's because I **** up. And no I don't have fast reflexes, one of the reasons I play MMOs...

I also think you have an interesting understanding of playing in a pvp area. If someone kills you he prevents you from playing? What exactly do you want to accomplish in that area then? I for one go there to hit people on the head.

There's no need to get personal. It's a simple matter of fact that shamans are small, zones are big, there's plenty of places to hide and with 100 ft range and DOTS (which they can simply apply and let them tick you down), they can ambush you easily.

There's a huge difference between being killed by an opponent and being so utterly outclassed that whether you wait to get killed or try to fight makes no difference. The latter happening with every player you meet outside organized groups is not what I go there for.

When I play solo I would guess my win ratio is somewhere around 60%. With group it depends a bit on setup, players and opposition but I would guess it's between 70-100%. But to be honest the reason my solo rate is so high is because in solo scs alot of people don't have clue what they are doing.

It's not the amount of times you win, it's that there exist times when you are denied the opportunity to play the scenario.

Anyway, I feel that I've overstayed my welcome here in these forums. Although I knew everyone here was hardcore and casuals dont post, I underestimated how rabidly you defend the way you want to play the game.

[kweedko]

But what would you go about nerfing to achieve this? The shaman's mobility? Then it would become an easy target in group play; the 'damage'? The damage doesn't really account for much in a group environment; the survivability? Then they would be even easier to one-shot than they already are.

Nerfing the class in a setting that has no bearing on the main PvP style could have drastic effects on said class in a group setting, where the combination of these traits (survival, mobility, damage, healing) actually give it somewhat of a role.

I completely disagree, I think nerfing the class in that setting will set it on the right course in a group setting.

Quite simply put, you cannot improve a shaman's damage, because then he has too much mobility and utility. You cannot buff his ability to kill healers, because then he will be able to do everything. You cannot buff a shaman's healing because then he does the other things just as well.

You cannot balance a shaman because they already dominate several classes completely and anything additional will throw them hugely off-balance.

So, approach that. Balance the shaman's abilities that allow it to destroy any melee dps (possibly except WL) and then buff it where it has a problem, i.e. healers and white lions.

I'm more arguing about the approach here, not the actual meat of the matter.

No one ever gonna balance any class cause it can kill someone in t1-t3, if i kill you as my DDZEALOT 1vs1, what you gonna whine that DDZEALOTS are OP and they need nerf? Try playing DD AM and you see that shammy is just a garbage compare to AM.

[Vandoles]

No one ever gonna balance any class cause it can kill someone in t1-t3, if i kill you as my DDZEALOT 1vs1, what you gonna whine that DDZEALOTS are OP and they need nerf? Try playing DD AM and you see that shammy is just a garbage compare to AM.

This isn't a whine thread my friend, I run largely in 6-man groups and organized WBs. I do, however, love the diversity of WAR - running offspeccs, having fun by yourself. Which is only doable through casual play. Kill casual play and you're left with 2 mara 2 chosen 2 zealot groups facing off against 1 rp 1 wp 1 kotbs 1 sm 2 slayers or something of that nature. Roughly said. But I can see I'm not winning much support here.

[peterthepan3]

You're arguing from a solo perspective, though. You will only 'destroy melee DPS' if you catch them at unawares (and even then, that isn't certain: a good WL or WH can kill a DPS shaman). A shaman does not 'dominate' a class simply by merit of being able to catch someone, dot them and keep distance. That isn't domination. Also even sorcerers, magi and squigs can deal with melee as well as a shaman can (check Korze's sorc solo vid where he solos 3 WHs)

Speaking from the perspective of someone who has a DPS Shaman: you NEED the combination of damage, survivability (via your puddle and shield) and mobility (run away) to take a spot in a group. You are essentially a mobile DoT class that can be very hard to reach if you play well - that is what sets the class apart. Morfee does this very well, in particular.

A Magus is probably just as good as a Shaman for dueling (even moreso vs certain melee/tanks) btw. There's a reason why the Shaman is being buffed in group situations and not in solo situations, because it is lacking in one and not in the other. Also agree with Kweed re DPS AM vs Shaman for dueling (shaman is nothing compared to a good am)

[Dabbart]

This isn't a whine thread my friend, I run largely in 6-man groups and organized WBs. I do, however, love the diversity of WAR - running offspeccs, having fun by yourself. Which is only doable through casual play. Kill casual play and you're left with 2 mara 2 chosen 2 zealot groups facing off against 1 rp 1 wp 1 kotbs 1 sm 2 slayers or something of that nature. Roughly said. But I can see I'm not winning much support here.

Did you expect too? If so, to what end?


Edit: I'm having some serious issues with the format going goofy... Last time I get creative with quoting:P

[Pulse]

There won't be anything done specifically to address 1v1 balance. If you want to solo roam your best bet is to choose a class known to be a good solo roamer, just like you would choose a class that is a good healer if you want to heal.

All classes can be fun to play, most are at severe disadvantages when it comes to soloing and it is by design. You can also just find some fun in trying to overcome the odds and work at new strats on a class you like so long as you can accept dying more times than winning.

As a casual player myself I run WH and ddRP that I can play with the zerg pug when I feel like or solo other times. I just figure I will die a bunch too.

[Vandoles]

Did you expect too? If so, to what end?

Did I expect to, what exactly?

Influence people?

Yeh, sure, maybe the devs. Maybe people who have a larger overall perspective.

Casual play is to the benefit of us all. New players, newbies, people learning being able to play as well as the huge mass of casual players, which outweighs the hardcore people are what allow the game to grow.

But it may be as lost a cause as I thought it'd be.

Ah well, can't say I didn't try.