Diminished rations

[killimandros]

just out of curiosity, you are inferior in numbers still having no problems holding a 5 star keep, all bo's and at the same time almost take down lord so many times. How would you imagine the evening would have been with diminishing rations? You obviously field the better warbands and the better organization. Maybe even the more dedicated players, I dont know really, but didnt you have fun at all tonight? Wasnt it better than the typical bumrush evening with little to no resistance? Its not like you dont have enough medals or geared up is it. How about making this discussion also into how to balance the sides better. Numerical it was more or less equal the entire evening, still order got massively outfought for the outer parts. Thats not very healthy in the long run is it

I understand the issues in regards to how hard it is to cap a keep, but following the fights the whole evening I can only stress again, order DID really try its best to grab some bo's, obviously. We wanted the def. tick. We just couldnt do it, and ended up either in keep or wc every time. Be happy most didnt actually quit, as per normal

[NectaneboII]

but obviously you prefer order leavng keep so you can cap easy...

+

I know right ! it takes 0 skill to charge at a poorly defended keep
So ......the doors where both down , Order chose to defend , HOW DARE THEY !!??
4 stars Lord , ye , go siege a 4 STAR Order Keep , then you will be allowed to trashtalk till then , this goes to the:
"It cant be ! i am too op ! i am gonna whine on the forums cause i dont like inconveniences" Dessies File.

You are so deluded in your power trip that you forget that these changes WILL affect your realm aswell .

[Thayli]

just out of curiosity, you are inferior in numbers still having no problems holding a 5 star keep, all bo's and at the same time almost take down lord so many times. How would you imagine the evening would have been with diminishing rations? You obviously field the better warbands and the better organization. Maybe even the more dedicated players, I dont know really, but didnt you have fun at all tonight? Wasnt it better than the typical bumrush evening with little to no resistance? Its not like you dont have enough medals or geared up is it. How about making this discussion also into how to balance the sides better. Numerical it was more or less equal the entire evening, still order got massively outfought for the outer parts. Thats not very healthy in the long run is it

I understand the issues in regards to how hard it is to cap a keep, but following the fights the whole evening I can only stress again, order DID really try its best to grab some bo's, obviously. We wanted the def. tick. We just couldnt do it, and ended up either in keep or wc every time. Be happy most didnt actually quit, as per normal

What I'll say now might be a bit controversial and probably won't be all that well received, but I have noticed a big trend in Order that heavily favors defensive play. Much more than Destruction. I notice it in most if not all scenarios and in large scale RVR. There have been so many cases where Order had a 5 rank keep, ALL BOs, yet refused to attack our keep. This is highly annoying, because it results in the dichotomy of you having to either defend against a force that is never coming, or attacking in very unfavorable circumstances in order to actually play the game. Scenarios like Khaine's Embrace and Logrin's Forge magnify this issue even more.

But to respond, yes I did have fun tonight, despite the issues with keep sieging. The only thing more boring than always having to play the offensive is a stomp, I agree. But take today's case, for example. We held a 5 rank keep while Order's keep was rank 0 for very long. We held all BOs. And we can not take the keep, for hours, even with the most tryhard organized play. While Dragonwake's keep design and the keep lord spazzing out are probably the main factors here, all we're asking for is that you can't sit in a keep for 5 hours and defend without some form of penalty.

[killimandros]

hmm, ye I totally agree with you upon the last paragraph, apart from the fact we were eventually pushed there we didnt really choose to. Now its not very controversial what you say, its from my point of view logical. Order has been on the weaker side for quite some time havent they, so it has become more natural to form defensive positions. Mindset. Now at the same time order does lack an offensive backbone, as I am sure you would agree upon, in the form of a dedicated open field guild roaming the lakes in offensive formation (like the old bomb squads). For the moment this will probably be the typical gameplay until your guild gets a natural counterguild Meanwhile all easymodes will go easy, avoiding obstacles to gain some sort of reward until the believe and support to the pugs (and then also support from the pugs to the organized groups) makes the natural choice to fight in lakes and stand in those fights if theyre even. Its not only your guild which makes the fight harder for order, it is also the support you get from the destro pugs in your lakeleading.

[dur3al]

There are a ton of ways it could be run, but for example, players should receive a stacking diminished rations debuff in increments of +5% damage every 10 minutes under the following conditions:

-Your keep is 4 stars lower than the factions keep which is attacking
-You haven't left the area of your keep in 10 minutes

This could completely negated by moving a single resource into your keep.

How about if there is so much adversity against player stat debuffs , putting a wounds/hp debuff on the lord itself with similar conditioning as you wrote.

5% reduced HP every 5-10 minutes under the conditions you have outlined , either with a cap on it or it going down to 1hp to the point where it can get killed with a normal arty/canon shot or a quick rush to kill him fast.

The way those checks need to be made is to ensure that in the event of equal sized forces you WILL eventually loose the keep if you just hunker up without a care for objectives , yet still provide the capacity for a defense when you are the underdog with decently high aao ( by not having the mechanic trigger at all)

I really like this idea as well, you're adding a debuff to the keep lord which honestly is what is killing and wiping the attacking forces.

I would even say that if the Lord would have normal pathing and wouldn't teleport and 1 shot left and right, this wouldn't even be a discussion. But currently since they're so buggy, they're to strong and completely wreck pugs. So if you add the DR logic to the lord as a sort of debuff, it would work - and you're not debuffing players or anything, just the PvE Lord.

[sanii]

just out of curiosity, you are inferior in numbers still having no problems holding a 5 star keep, all bo's and at the same time almost take down lord so many times. How would you imagine the evening would have been with diminishing rations? You obviously field the better warbands and the better organization. Maybe even the more dedicated players, I dont know really, but didnt you have fun at all tonight? Wasnt it better than the typical bumrush evening with little to no resistance? Its not like you dont have enough medals or geared up is it. How about making this discussion also into how to balance the sides better. Numerical it was more or less equal the entire evening, still order got massively outfought for the outer parts. Thats not very healthy in the long run is it

I am speaking strictly from a biased perspective of a solo/small scale individual and thus not representative of any of the larger organized groupings out there, but a keep assault has never , even in successful cases been the highlight of my day compared to good ol' open/BO fight.

The problem is not even the fun aspect to me as i have other ways to keep me entertained apart from a keep siege, it is the fact that you as a realm given advantages in organization and cooperation can not take a keep even if you are holding the whole zone AND winning all the fights on objectives , makes the entire future campaign ( fortresses,city sieges) meaningless . To the point where the side which is apparently 'winning' is being discouraged that their efforts have just been in vain ( and eventually is loosing people as slamming your head against the wall is not fun). You can look for the ' fun in the fight ' aspect as much as you want but this is still a WAR and a realm's efforts need to bear at least some fruit to warrant the existence of such organization and cooperation at all.

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

Here we are again. Another friday, 5 star keep in TM, order sitting in their keep at rank 0 with no reason to leave their keep because there's literally nothing else to do in RVR but sit in their keep and refuse to partake in anything but a wall defense.

[shaggyboomboom]

Spoiler:

Then you clearly arent doing a good enough job.

Lets not try and start throwing accusations or start a flame - Natherul

[HCLyk]

Yesterday, the order hide in his keep at Praag.
Even if we had AAO, we "had" to attack their keep. Obviously, no chance to take it. But we fought (\o/).
I think it may become a problem.

But maybe, we clearly arent doing a good enough job.