possible solutions to pug sc composition problem

[Tesq]

since i saw a lot of problems regarding the classes distribuition in sc and the lack of a matchmaking system i tought of something.

Since the ppl cannot know in advance what classes are needed for sc i tough about 2 solution

A) an add on/ui new interface linked to a command which declare how many of tanks/dps/healer there are in queue curently so that you can queue with an appropriate class and help the balance in advance: for exemple:

10 tank 12 dps 8 healer

ppl will know that they should log their healer /tank to get better fight in sc,

PRO:
it bypass the problem of a more heavy matchmaking system by let know ppl in advance with what they should queue which will not make queue longer.

CONTR:
ppl will still be forced to not level up/play the classes they want in that moment

B) a in sc class swap and i mean a in game command that in sc only allow you to swap to 1 staple class so you can play any class of that realm with staple set up dev will decide; basically you will re load all skill, tactics, renown, mastery by a staple set up for 1 class and the game will allow the swap only for met a 4-4-4 population into sc (basically will only allow swap into archtype that are under than 4 in sc).

PRO:
- to bypass the problem of a more heavy matchmaking system which will make queue longer
-ppl will not be forced to not level up/play the classes they want in that moment because any exp/loot etc will still be rewarded to their class, just theyr character will temp change into another class (this can be achived with play as monster meccanic as skaven)

CONTR:
at some circustance ppl may be able to play multiple character with out the need to level them up , suffice to say that this can be more exploitable now but in my idea the staple build for class swap have a rr and gear inferior to the currently avaiable gear/rr

*so for exemple currently a class swap should give a swap into a level 40 rank 35/40rr since the gear cap is actually 50*, so yea you will be able to balance sc but at cost of play with still some disadvanatge; this should still not allow to have the same kind of balance than a premade but will regardless help pug sc group composition and will still be better than lack certain classes

*the 4-4-4- set up will change to 2-2-2 for the not premade party in case there is 1 pug/not full premade party while the other is a premade


i think that both of those solution could greatly help with the sc balance with out use a more heavier matchmaking system.

[Scottx125]

Both of those options are too lax and could be fairly difficult to implement IMO. I like this suggestion in my thread:

I reckon the best way to do it is to just apply restrictions to the healers, seeing as they are the ones that can make or break a team.

Scenario 1 - If no healers join on one team, the other team should not get any either, scenario pops and both teams battle.
Scenario 2 - if a healer joins on one team, restrict it so that only 1 healer can join on the other team, so it's 1 for 1, 2 for 2 and so on, scenario pops or this could even happen during scenario.

Now i know it ain't a perfect solution but i'd rather be in a scenario with no healers vs one that enemy team has them but mine does not, seems only fair.

But instead of applying it to just healers, apply it to all classes, and use the template of team A to dictate the template of team B. So if team A has 4 healers and 2 dps, team B will only be allowed to consist of 4 healers and 2 dps. And to make this fair on both order and destro perhaps the realm with the lowest pop has its team template used to dictate the team comp of the other side.

[Tesq]

Both of those options are inadequate and fairly difficult IMO. I like this suggestion in my thread:

I reckon the best way to do it is to just apply restrictions to the healers, seeing as they are the ones that can make or break a team.

Scenario 1 - If no healers join on one team, the other team should not get any either, scenario pops and both teams battle.
Scenario 2 - if a healer joins on one team, restrict it so that only 1 healer can join on the other team, so it's 1 for 1, 2 for 2 and so on, scenario pops or this could even happen during scenario.

Now i know it ain't a perfect solution but i'd rather be in a scenario with no healers vs one that enemy team has them but mine does not, seems only fair.

But instead of applying it to just healers, apply it to all classes, and use the template of team A to dictate the template of team B. So if team A has 4 healers and 2 dps, team B will only be allowed to consist of 4 healers and 2 dps. And to make this fair on both order and destro perhaps the realm with the lowest pop has its team template used to dictate the team comp of the other side.

this solution have the contr of a matchmaking system which increase pop time for some ppl out of other and dont really solve efficently the problem + dosen't fit well vs premade. Also theya re not hard to implement at all.....

-solution A can be done both from add on + command inside server (which is pretty easyfor someone that do add on)
-soilution B require play as monster meccanic from 1.4 which is alredy implemente in client it just need to be apply server side i assume to different command and set up

[peterthepan3]

tldr form groups gg? simplest solution, would take up far fewer resources

[Azarael]

And this needed a new thread because? I've told you before. The historical choice was made. You wanted the freedom to queue in any composition and with any group member count? You got it. Any resultant compositional issues are your collective problem unless you're willing to compromise.

[Tesq]

tldr form groups gg? simplest solution, would take up far fewer resources

what if there is not online enough ppl with specific carrier or ppl wanna lv that toon which they cannot because there are too many x archtype in sc and have to choose between jimp his sc or either swap class or not play since he have no other classes?

@aza because is a separate suggestion from the other one and there really wasn't a serious thread about fix the problem and you said you would had ingored the last one i saw anyway. Plus i think they have both more merits than others. I dont get why the system could not get improved further is not like this gona hit premde queue.....i mean both solution dont impact other side queue time or balance they are improvement for both pug side be them either vs premade or not. Premade are not influenced because it isn't a check pre queue is a swap inside sc for the B option. POP time is not influened, to tell the true this will just positive affect queue.
Fell free to discard em then regardless they fell both good suggestions to me that both bypass the problem of the matchmaking system

[Scottx125]

Both of those options are inadequate and fairly difficult IMO. I like this suggestion in my thread:

I reckon the best way to do it is to just apply restrictions to the healers, seeing as they are the ones that can make or break a team.

Scenario 1 - If no healers join on one team, the other team should not get any either, scenario pops and both teams battle.
Scenario 2 - if a healer joins on one team, restrict it so that only 1 healer can join on the other team, so it's 1 for 1, 2 for 2 and so on, scenario pops or this could even happen during scenario.

Now i know it ain't a perfect solution but i'd rather be in a scenario with no healers vs one that enemy team has them but mine does not, seems only fair.

But instead of applying it to just healers, apply it to all classes, and use the template of team A to dictate the template of team B. So if team A has 4 healers and 2 dps, team B will only be allowed to consist of 4 healers and 2 dps. And to make this fair on both order and destro perhaps the realm with the lowest pop has its team template used to dictate the team comp of the other side.

this solution have the contr of a matchmaking system which increase pop time for some ppl out of other and dont really solve efficently the problem + dosen't fit well vs premade.

I thought premades vs only premades(this system would not apply to that queue). And this would not really increase waiting times as the match maker would take the team layout from the lowest pop side out of all classes, so it could be 1 tank, 3 healers and 2 dps or any variant of that. Only queue times to increase would be for the side that has an extreme excess of classes which the other side does not have. This is the only solution I see as fair without causing ridiculous delays for SC's. You have to strike a balance between match making balance and waiting time. And the only people who will have to wait, are those people who are rolling overpopulated classes in contrast to the current lowest pop side. Or you could randomly generate which side is chosen for a template, game 1 could be destro, 3 tanks 1dps and 1 healer. Game 2 could be order with 0 tanks 3 dps and 3 healers.

[Tankbeardz]

The problem that all of these so-called fixes fail to address is that you can't force a healer to heal and not to DPS.

[xanderous]

The problem that all of these so-called fixes fail to address is that you can't force a healer to heal and not to DPS.

Very true, my original suggestion was mostly aimed at healer distribution, no healers available to play in scenario for one side should not force the other side to play without, that's all i would like to see tested,

I could care less about tanks and dps lol

[Tesq]

The problem that all of these so-called fixes fail to address is that you can't force a healer to heal and not to DPS.

there is not a problem at all with that do ppl even red the main post i made before comment, i just gave you a solution in which archtype can be swap .....if you have no healer you can became ONE you dont have to force anyone....... system can detect if a dok/wp is not healing mode on.... camon.... The system make all happy, sc balance is easier achivable even under unbalanced queue archtype and ppl are regardless rewarded to their toon. This is not matchmaking related tool it will not force no one and it will not increase pop time, solution B is a active player tool to do out of combat inside sc only; solution A is a pre queue organization tools.
Both and/or just 1 can be implemented they are indipended to each other and the aim is make sc more fun for everyone. Make them more accessible with out burden on premade pop which remove them from the 4-4-4 and apply only a 2-2-2 to the other party and only if any want swap class. Everyone can enter in the set up they want regardless with their full group.