possible solutions to pug sc composition problem

[navis]

It's like a idea for new addon which combines autoband + qquer. I think it could work if the dev's allow it.

[wargrimnir]

We're not exactly drowning in skilled Addon creators for our close to 10 year old game. If someone wanted to make one, I think it'd be pretty neat. Wouldn't hold my breath for it.

[Tesq]

i was think more about that when client controll is achived, i image that the possibility to be able to modify ui and fix what may work bad in the client could be achivable hence i drop that idea even if i don't really know what you can do about it currently.
The problem is more that server need to send to the add on specific data which i belive are not send currently for total ppl in queue and their archtype. If an add on would be create, it would require 1 add on creator ( tough about sullk and what he done with zone pop) but also dev working serverside. Or a easier solution, all done by dev with client controll and implementation directly into the ui.

i tough that if implemented togheter the solution B would only work to be a bandaind for solution A in case ppl really need/want to level up 1 toons but classes population dont allow balanced sc... or anyway they will work regardless in synergy for what i takes.

Solution A is like build a group in /5 with the improvement that server keep track of ppl for you and you dont have to loose time and wait for ppl to notice the /5 chat. This is what would make sc more friendly and less tedious .

[Scottx125]

The problem that all of these so-called fixes fail to address is that you can't force a healer to heal and not to DPS.

there is not a problem at all with that do ppl even red the main post i made before comment, i just gave you a solution in which archtype can be swap .....if you have no healer you can became ONE you dont have to force anyone....... system can detect if a dok/wp is not healing mode on.... camon.... The system make all happy, sc balance is easier achivable even under unbalanced queue archtype and ppl are regardless rewarded to their toon. This is not matchmaking related tool it will not force no one and it will not increase pop time, solution B is a active player tool to do out of combat inside sc only; solution A is a pre queue organization tools.
Both and/or just 1 can be implemented they are indipended to each other and the aim is make sc more fun for everyone. Make them more accessible with out burden on premade pop which remove them from the 4-4-4 and apply only a 2-2-2 to the other party and only if any want swap class. Everyone can enter in the set up they want regardless with their full group.

That sounds like your forcing them to change build, if a WP or DOK wants to go full DPS and not heal, that is their choice, but inherently in the way the class is designed they will do some healing, that is almost guaranteed.

And I disagree with the solution put in place for SC's being the only choice, people voted for it and you implemented it.. great. But this system is not flawless, its cut queue times sure but its left MASSIVE deficiencies in balance, and now even if you get into a game, if your team build is crap due to the luck of the draw you are screwed and either leave, wait around for the round to end or fight a futile battle. What we need is a balanced match making system, balanced between assigning a fair balance of each team whilst keeping queue times as low as possible. I don't think asking the community "Is this what you want, we will implement it and that will be that" approach is the right one, these different systems need to be tested individually to discern the best one. I'd suggest doing a month by month test of a list of proposed methods for the SC match maker and perhaps have a questionnaire that rates players approval ratings of each system every month in terms of waiting time and balance.

Will this take time and resources? Yes.. But its the only way to find a definitive solution to this problem that will keep coming back.

tldr form groups gg? simplest solution, would take up far fewer resources

Not everyone wants to play in a premade group. They want to meet new players, and I doubt changing group every time you finish a round is practical. Plus not playing in premade groups adds an element of randomness and flavor to each game on your side, you don't know what kind of players your gonna end up with, which for me personally is interesting. Instead of, yep won last game, queue up again, and again, and again with the same people. Plus the point still stands if there are not enough of one type of class on your side, you could be waiting around for a specific class you need for ages. So why not just let what available players there are play, and limit those in the current SC to match both teams equally. Then if a tank logs in and launchers, a new SC will play with 1 tank on both teams if both teams have a tank queued up.

[Tesq]

scott i do not think you get my solution B, you are not forcing healer to play heal

my chosen for exemple rr 60 "CAN" transform into a zealot specced healer with rr 35 full purple 35 gear let's say if we got less than 4 healers. (the same way in live worked the play as monster meccanic of skavens)...OR can became a rank/rr 35 choppa etc. if alredy 2-3 ppl in every sc adjust the class compositon the sc will be better for everyone; but it's their choice; you have a 2-3-1 ranged comp for pure chance? cool no need to swp class, you want play regardless with 1 healer and 3 tank? cool no need t swap class BUT you are having an hard time in sc due to comp? swap class and make comp better it's easy. The check on healer will matter only to flag them as a dps or a healer just for the count of the swap, in no way you force only dps healer to swap into full healer.

If ppl face less group composition problem this should also help speed up queue and balance sc with out actually force anyone do anything; the system will remain the same as now. (this actually also improve ppl knowledge of classes by make em play more classes and so understand game better).

Imposing a match up system alredy proved bad during some timestamp hence why everyone is so hard against it. Face that we are a small server if we had 20 server then a matchmaking would had been possible by cross queue ppl.
To prove this point of bad matchmaing, in t1 we had so few ppl that we jsut had to write in t1 chat and say we lack 2 healers i re roll 1 can a tank roll another one? or a tank log a dps and a dps log a healer?.... and it worked this now think about how many ppl we have in game which are not as core as ppl in t1 we had here which have multiple classes.
It's very unresonnable force an increasing in some ppl pop because youre side do not have enough x of this class


with out any doubt it will be hard that 2 party with no healer (not even heal-dps) will be able face other two with 2-3 .

my solution A should help keep the situation under controll and solution B should help fix the flaw of solution A.

[peterthepan3]

Not everyone wants to play in a premade group. They want to meet new players, and I doubt changing group every time you finish a round is practical. Plus not playing in premade groups adds an element of randomness and flavor to each game on your side, you don't know what kind of players your gonna end up with, which for me personally is interesting. Instead of, yep won last game, queue up again, and again, and again with the same people. Plus the point still stands if there are not enough of one type of class on your side, you could be waiting around for a specific class you need for ages. So why not just let what available players there are play, and limit those in the current SC to match both teams equally. Then if a tank logs in and launchers, a new SC will play with 1 tank on both teams if both teams have a tank queued up.

that's cool, but if you don't want a premade group, then you can not possibly ask for completely balanced pug scenarios, with ror's population as it is. it is just not going to be feasible.