armor and tanking

[xanderous]

Well it was just a suspicion these were intentionally turned off, not that i assumed something sinister from it, i can understand why they would turn these off, still, i really think that certain abilities and stat options from renown vendor should be class restricted but that is just my opinion.

[Luth]

Trivial blows, last stand, hardy concessions and the like do not work by intention.

Well damn, I stand corrected. Any reason why? Other than Trivial Blows being borderline mandatory on live (we see the same on here with RD/CW anyways)

TB was just a bad bandaid to fix various problems; as you posted, it was actually mandatory and no one should be forced to spend 45 renown points into a specific renown ability. If the crit chances/damage was generally too high, mythic should have nerfed the general crit chances/damage (items etc.). If the crit chances/damages was only too high on some classes, they should have nerfed the classes (abilities, tactics, class mechanics). But that's ofc a bit more work than implementing TB.
Last stand was a joke, i don't know how any combat&career dev could get the idea to implement this in a PvP MMO.
As you already mentioned, there are already other renown abilities implemented on RoR that mess around enough with balance, see RD/CW balance discussion.

[Luth]

Trivial blows, last stand, hardy concessions and the like do not work by intention.

and the like

to confirm: Futile Strikes? yes?

Futile strikes works which can be checked easily with .getstats.

[spacegoat]

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that tanks are in any way too easy to kill. My low RR, undergeared sword and board Chosen almost never dies to melee unless I get swarmed, don't have a healer, and run out of pots. Every once in a while a WH gets the jump on me and takes me down, but I'm pretty sure that these guys are (1) high RR, (2) geared, (3) specialized for the task, (4) good at what they do. Seems fine to me.

By contrast, my low RR, moderately geared, and (I hope) moderately well-played WE still has trouble taking out tanks, to the point where I'm not sure it's a guaranteed kill even when I catch one alone.

[xanderous]

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that tanks are in any way too easy to kill. My low RR, undergeared sword and board Chosen almost never dies to melee unless I get swarmed, don't have a healer, and run out of pots. Every once in a while a WH gets the jump on me and takes me down, but I'm pretty sure that these guys are (1) high RR, (2) geared, (3) specialized for the task, (4) good at what they do. Seems fine to me.

By contrast, my low RR, moderately geared, and (I hope) moderately well-played WE still has trouble taking out tanks, to the point where I'm not sure it's a guaranteed kill even when I catch one alone.

Chosen are a completely different kettle of fish, a defensively spec'd a chosen only has to use Mixed defense tactic + suppression to get 50% parry and can maintain it 100% of the time this leaves them free to spend their renown points on other stats, also ravage ability seems to also pretty hit hard even when no points have been put into its respective tree, you could also put points into that tree to get crippling strike, reducing the damage you receive by 25% as well.

But yes WE's and WH's are all about that uber burst, easy to mess up their rotation though with a few good blocks.

[Dresden]

Trivial blows, last stand, hardy concessions and the like do not work by intention.

and the like

to confirm: Futile Strikes? yes?

Futile strikes works which can be checked easily with .getstats.

Thank you.

[Dabbart]

I've played every tank except IB. If your super squishy... that's on you. No WH/WE should be able to kill a non-DPSderp tank r40 "in a few blows". Just your toughness and amount of wounds precludes this...

Focus on positioning. They can't ignore armor at will. And parry/block only works from the front. Dodge/disrupt works 360 degrees. So even if your turn your back to the RDPS, you get an avoidance check. Doesn't work that way against MDPS.

I suggest you work on the basics.

[freshour]

Only exception to a WE/WH killing a tank is when an EU WH/WE gets ahold of an NA tank.. or anyone else with bad ping. There is just about nothing you can do to avoid them bypassing armor and slaughtering you. If that happened, well then you can only do so much, but that is just part of the game.

[Collateral]

I would not agree. If you saw the vid by Feroze you can see how much damage a wh can do to a tank. For me personally, I have lots of trouble fighting a good wh. But that's in a more solo spec that has some offensive stats as well (I want to kill stuff after all ). But yea if you're a complete turtle there is no hope for mdps. You will win a battle of attrition, unless they decide they want nothing to do with you.

[tazdingo]

people keep hyping up melee avoidance as the be all end all but in t4 it largely means nothing when it comes to self preservance

go stand on the front line during a wb v wb fight, filter combat tab to self DD and check your blocks and parries - even if you make every conceivable attempt to always face the enemy i can promise that you will block and parry far, far, far fewer hits that your HARD block/parry percentages say that you should

i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with OP, armour is a complicated subject that i don't really have an opinion about BUT pretending that stacking avoidance will do much to keep you alive in orvr is just laughable. they are for negating guard damage and occasionally getting lucky vs CC. if you're not a guardbot, block is just crap. your shield is doing absolutely nothing to protect you from damaging swings aimed solely at you. parry is only marginally better because of better returns

deft is great though stack that. sod rdps