Reintroductions and reflections.

[Grulo]

That solutions proposed in the balance forum were not taken does not mean the forum was purposeless. People can barely agree in any topic; if the balance forum were listened to completely we'd either have inaction or design by committee, and if the balance forum were capable of agreeing on absolutely every topic, then we wouldn't have any balance problems in any game, ever. I can say that some decisions were not taken, and others were changed, because of what happened in the balance forum.

Nature of the beast is that someone's vision has to prevail.

I should have clarified, you were already gone when this started happening.

[Martok]

This is known of as logic:

Nature of the beast is that someone's vision has to prevail.

And does not imply either dictatorial rule or singular vision. It simply means all things being equal there is no such thing as a true consensus, at some point a decision has to be made.

[altharion1]

RE: Balance Forums

Perhaps a good idea would be to have a central point of reference detailing the team's views on what the classes should be, their play styles, how they play, strengths, weaknesses, interactions and synergies with other classes, ie the fundamental concept behind each class, and where the team wants to take the classes in terms of balances (no easy task).

Then maybe the balance forums would be more productive. Suggestions could then be made that push the classes towards the team's idea of each class, in a more collaborative way within the community. Also preventing wasting time on proposals that dont fit the team's ideas.

This would also have the knockon effect of us better understanding the changes that are made, as we can see the direction we are going, how the change fits into the teams class concept, and that their is some kind of long term plan/reason for the balance change.

[Sulorie]

but as far i know, we don't punish anyone to have an opinion... unless i'm completely blind...

Ah, almost forgot about those quality staff responses, sadly topic was closed so have to copy them manual. Its in my topic suggesting changes to scenarios to prevent cowardly playing next to guards for safety and protection instead actually going out to the field and taking the risk.

Wargrimnir: "Know your enemy. If they want to cheese at guards, take the objective and trash them on the forums. Pretty sure that's the real point of tryhard 6v6 around here."

Torquemadra: "No

get away from the other sides spawn." - and also closed topic that was still discussed.

Topic for the reference: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26609&start=30

Suprise suprise that was last suggestion topic i made, since it became crystal clear that everyone warning me that theres no point in doing so was right.

But didn't you got your answer? When the enemy team doesn't want to fight yours and is waiting at spawn, you should run objective to end match fast. At this point the topic was done.

[Gravord]

but as far i know, we don't punish anyone to have an opinion... unless i'm completely blind...

Ah, almost forgot about those quality staff responses, sadly topic was closed so have to copy them manual. Its in my topic suggesting changes to scenarios to prevent cowardly playing next to guards for safety and protection instead actually going out to the field and taking the risk.

Wargrimnir: "Know your enemy. If they want to cheese at guards, take the objective and trash them on the forums. Pretty sure that's the real point of tryhard 6v6 around here."

Torquemadra: "No

get away from the other sides spawn." - and also closed topic that was still discussed.

Topic for the reference: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26609&start=30

Suprise suprise that was last suggestion topic i made, since it became crystal clear that everyone warning me that theres no point in doing so was right.

But didn't you got your answer? When the enemy team doesn't want to fight yours and is waiting at spawn, you should run objective to end match fast. At this point the topic was done.

If you would bother to read the topic, you would know im refering to things like High Pass Cemetary where range dps staying 5 meters from guard have shooting range to both objectives...
Also offered simple effective solution that work out perfectly in another game with very similar combat design.

Last time ive checked "no, because no, topic closed, **** off" is not exactly discussing feedback and suggestion. Maybe it is for you however, im not judging.

[Azarael]

RE: Balance Forums

Perhaps a good idea would be to have a central point of reference detailing the team's views on what the classes should be, their play styles, how they play, strengths, weaknesses, interactions and synergies with other classes, ie the fundamental concept behind each class, and where the team wants to take the classes in terms of balances (no easy task).

Then maybe the balance forums would be more productive. Suggestions could then be made that push the classes towards the team's idea of each class, in a more collaborative way within the community. Also preventing wasting time on proposals that dont fit the team's ideas.

This would also have the knockon effect of us better understanding the changes that are made, as we can see the direction we are going, how the change fits into the teams class concept, and that their is some kind of long term plan/reason for the balance change.

This is a good point. I will set something out shortly.

[adei]

Nice PR move I guess, personally think this is stupid and beautifully ironic but yeah. Wouldn't mid hearing torques opinion the matter, hes the only one the team that seems to have any sort of understanding of this community, despite what people think of him.

[covenn]

Yaliskah wrote:

Spoiler:

A player base is not going to stick around if they feel suffocated or like they have to constantly walk on egg shells, which is EXACTLY what the environment here became. Toxic beyond belief and it was not the fault of the player base.

Excuse me. Have previously admitted many things with my poor frenglish. Reading this sentence hurts me a bit.

I understand this, please correct me if i'm wrong:
WE must pay a particular attention to the players feelings and angriness, and in the same time, WE must accept silently salt and everything ? Who are we? Servants? We are dedicating our lives for this project and for players in general... None here asks for a thank you. None here ask for glory or gratitude. But there is so much hate... ...really?

What about the thousand of players actually enjoying the game without a single warning ? They are nothing ? Don't we have any respect for them ? Are we torturing them and abusing our power ? Isn't it the playerbase too?

When it is about balance, everybody know whatever things done, whine and cries will come as if things were definitive. Many ppl are posting about, many ppl are discussing about, even in the team we are giving feedbacks and opinions, but as far i know, we don't punish anyone to have an opinion... unless i'm completely blind...

To dance a Tango, we must be 2. I'm never involved with bans or warnings -except once- (Hi Hao, come see me on discord say hello when you want), but i assume there is always a reason. And in the worst case, the faults are shared.

I apologize if I wasn't clear and didn't frame it better while trying to get my point across. I was being purposefully vague so as to not appear to be attacking someone specific. I can see now that I may have been too vague and people might have felt included in a statement that absolutely was not directed towards them. With that said, let me perfectly blunt without mentioning any names and see if that works better.

95% of the issues I mentioned earlier were the cause of a single person and how they decided to treat people. The other 5% was from someone else that would be cranky at times and come across the same way. Of course that 5% falls well within the realm of simply being human, but there is no excuse for the other person and the way that person treated players as less than human.

So with that said, the vast majority of the staff who work hard day in and out to make RoR a great game and fun community are unfairly lumped into generalized statements about this game and how players are treated. There really is no other way to say it. For the most part, it was a single bad apple was ruining the image of the game and driving players away. Look, I only really had a couple of direct interactions myself with this person and I backed off completely in those situations because I didn't want 'my' hard work and time ruined by getting banned for something trivial even though I was completely in the right and respectful the entire time. Seeing how this person treated other people was enough for me.

And no for the record, I am not talking about a couple of times I got into heated discussions with a different staff member about game issues as documented by my post history. In fact, I am not talking about him at all. Aside from him making me feel like I had to kiss his arse and phrase everything exactly perfectly, he at least treated people like fellow human beings for the most part. Sure, if I could I would have knocked him off his high horse a couple of times, but that is neither here nor there and probably for the best.

If that didn't clear it up, I will be happy to take it to PMs. I am not intending to throw shade at the entire staff over the actions of mainly one person. Nobody, least of all myself, would expect you to be a punching bag for irate and emotional players. At the same time, it is not my job or the job of players 'trying to have fun' to be bullied, abused, and shat on by someone just because they bring a desired skill set to the dev team. Sorry, I know I am toeing a line here but I felt your response needed me to be more direct.

[Bozzax]

That solutions proposed in the balance forum were not taken does not mean the forum was purposeless. People can barely agree in any topic; if the balance forum were listened to completely we'd either have inaction or design by committee, and if the balance forum were capable of agreeing on absolutely every topic, then we wouldn't have any balance problems in any game, ever. I can say that some decisions were not taken, and others were changed, because of what happened in the balance forum.

Nature of the beast is that someone's vision has to prevail.

Sry feels like bs (post T3 days even more so after you left).

[Azarael]

Since you were never inside the team (and Grulo, I might add, was) you aren't really placed to judge what I may have decided internally or not. Sorry.

Examples: I never implemented a knockback on Redirected Force, did anything with Phantom's Blade or changed Dragon Gun because of the balance forum. Those are just a handful that I remember.