WL ideas: The Lion Spirit

[Mausini]

Hi,

I already posted my ideas in the WL thread but realized it might be the wrong board. Thats why I am reposting it here. I hope thats correct.

Thats my idea:
Change the Lion to a "Spiritual Follower". A ghost Lion that is always on the side of the character and make him invulnerable to any damage.
Strip off any auto attack or pet attack damage and only use him as a a tool for skill based attack animation like "Echoing Roar". Put the damage of the pet on top of the base skills.

Like this you keep the lion thematically and don't need to redo all pet based skills.

- Fetch could be a channel like the mirror skill but you send the pet while channeling.
- Brutal Pounce and Throat Bite is a fast hop forward from the "Spirit Lion". You can even add some range to it as a unique mechanic.
- Coordinated Strike could do mixed damage . Physical from you and spirit damage from the spirit lion.
- Leonine Frenzy could be extra damage on the characters attacks. Again even with the possibility to deal spiritual damage in combination with a tiny spirit resi debuff or something to spice things up.
- Echoing Roar simply uses the Lion right next to you as a second point for initiating the AOE... and so on.

I love the Idea to have a melee dsp with some sort of mixed damage component. Would be cool for small scale play too,some synergies with SM, Kotbs and AM.

But its late here and maybe the idea is total bullshit...

Good night guys and thanks for your effort dear RoR team.

P.S. Another stupid idea:
If you make some skills available for 2 stances they could do different secondary effects in different stances. Leonine Frenzy could do a spirit resi debuff in woodman but a armor debuff in Axeman (just a example)
Like that you would need to plan your rotations according to your spec. When to change stance, before or after firing LF.

[Gangan]

This actually doesn't sound to bad^^
Might solve some of the problems that are there with the pet.
The added spirit-dmg part would also fit to the elvish part, as they all seem to have a thing for spirits.

Kind of reminded me of the Rangers from GW/GW2 ,they could summon Spirits that granted buffs, debuffs and such things.

[Azarael]

I have four problems with this approach as opposed to simply summoning the lion on demand and using a tactic configuration for people who want to lean on the pet.

1) Texturing. How are you going to show that the Lion is a spirit?
2) Lore. White Lions don't fight alongside War Lions, but they can be trained to pull chariots, so this is not too far fetched an idea. White Lions definitely do not fight alongside the spirits of the creatures they kill.
3) Visual noise. War Lions create visual clutter due to their size. If they operate reliably in large scale that will be multiplied tenfold. I don't see that as being worth keeping them around.
4) Failure to attack. If the pet only attacks when the master calls a certain ability skill and has no autonomy of its own, then it's a glorified effect and doesn't justify persistence.

[Athergic]

Maybe the pet could just be there in spirit, and show as a buff, while also keeping the actual pet seperate for people who want it there. It could be called lion mane, or something lore wise.

[Gangan]

Quick brainstorm
1) some detaunts make your cha ghostly/spiritlike transparent. Maybe you could make something out of this?^^

2) good point, would be more fitting for a darkelve-char to bind the spirit of a killed creature to themselves.
Or it could be the spirit of a long time companion ?

3)that's why you can't summon companions in rvr I guess ^^

4)it's more of an esthetical thing I'd guess. Maybe the lion could only be visualized when using those skills? Showing the added force of the spirit? E.g sending it out to fetch.

[Mausini]

I have four problems with this approach as opposed to simply summoning the lion on demand and using a tactic configuration for people who want to lean on the pet.

1) Texturing. How are you going to show that the Lion is a spirit?
2) Lore. White Lions don't fight alongside War Lions, but they can be trained to pull chariots, so this is not too far fetched an idea. White Lions definitely do not fight alongside the spirits of the creatures they kill.
3) Visual noise. War Lions create visual clutter due to their size. If they operate reliably in large scale that will be multiplied tenfold. I don't see that as being worth keeping them around.
4) Failure to attack. If the pet only attacks when the master calls a certain ability skill and has no autonomy of its own, then it's a glorified effect and doesn't justify persistence.

To 1) I think giving it the transparent appear of the AM detaunt would work. Or just let it appear when you use a skill like you said, as a effect.

To 2) You are right. General speaking the Lion adds some distortion. But if he sticks to the character it would at least be better than it is now.

To 3)In the end the question is: Do you want to make WL unique as a character or is the main goal to reduce visual noise and lore persistence? If persistence is the thing we would need to talk about WL as MDSP or as Tank. The lore is already not persistent.

To 4) What is more persistent? A WL with a "pseudo" Pet that gives the opportunity to keep a lot of the unique WL skills but make it a non pet class with some pet flavor or is it better to make a non pet class that can have a pet on demand for people who still want to use WL as a pet class. I am not a super specialist in game design but at least in my job a rule of thumb is to try and reduce complexity. A class that works well with and without pet sounds like a jack of all trades and might be really hard to balance.

But a rather simple solution for creating a "pet on demand" class might be to include Loner into the class mechanic. If you don't have a pet you get something extra in the stances. If you cast a pet you loose the bonuses and get the pet with whatever it is going to do. From my point of view this should be a general decision for the player and require min maxing gear stats and skill setups. Otherwise it might be to powerful.

I am writing that down because you asked for feedback in the ingamechat and I try to give you some impulses. I am not stating that my thoughts are the best way to do it.

I would also kindly ask the community to care and give more ideas to Aza. That would be just fair after he did his "Tyler reformed" post (Joking). Right now most of you are just complaining or trolling about the "justified nerf". Non of both do help in any way...

[Fallenkezef]

Just remove the pet entirely and create a proper mara mirror?

[live4treasure]

I think the lion should become a superficial thing and just be effectively a spirit lion animation for certain thematic semi-magical attacks like fetch, silence, spirit damage abilities etc. It would, while not quite fitting the lore exactly, create a thematic reason for said abilities to exist and still look quite cool. That said, the heavy mutations and magic on the marauder aren't lore-accurate either, so you're going to need to bend abd twist things at least a little to offer interesting flavor and effects.

For pet lovers, there could simply be a tactic that gives them an actual pet with some benefits, as the large post above me suggests. Many things will have to be changed to work without pet, but it is for the better as far as balance is concerned.

[Azarael]

As of today I've made the call. The class more closely mirrors Marauder and the pet is used as a vector for ranged CC.

[Fallenkezef]

As of today I've made the call. The class more closely mirrors Marauder and the pet is used as a vector for ranged CC.

You just pissed off allot of people and made order stronger. Interesting times ahead.