New Grace Abilities

[Rathael87]

Hi guys

As a grace fan, I've been trying out some of the new abilities and I really agree with the direction that it is taking. I fully agree with trying to push towards removal of grace's damage and swapping it out for tankyness while still being a functional healer.

Shielding grace is an interesting idea. Tanks provide utility at range even when not in melee through guard and HTL. What about if grace WP was given a (requires-shield) HTL-type channel that heals those in the cone behind? Possibly while giving the warrior priest some increased avoidance himself so he doesn't get destroyed by enemy ranged attacks.

This would simultaneously provide some tankyness and durability on the front line to Grace whilst also allowing them to offer some healing to their group without having to be in melee.

In terms of constructive feedback, I feel that Grace has too many buffs to manage now that vision is baseline. If you want to apply full buffs, you need 3 globals. In addition they only target the ally, making them extremely clunky if you want to self-target sigmar's fist for example. Possible changes could be:

- Allow Grace buffs to affect both the defensive target and the warrior priest, so he does not have to constantly target himself and use them.
- Condense these buffs into one ability... for example, Sigmar's fist and vision could be one ability that provides both strength and parry.

[adamthelc]

Could be interesting, maybe give a little heal when they defend an attack or take damage or something.

I do agree with you about the buffs. 3 buffs seem like a lot to juggle with everything going on. It also is a lot because it takes away from your healing. Every GCD or AP you spend on buffing yourself or survivability is a GCD or AP you arent using on healing.

You could condense some of them, but I am not a big fan of that. Seems like it kind of dumbs it down, which I dont like. But I do think they could increase the durations. Make them all have a duration like sigmars fist or something.

Admittedly I haven't gotten a chance to test the newest changes yet. I keep playing destro first when I log in, then when I think about trying them I remember I cant switch any more.

[peterthepan3]

Personally not a fan of making the rotation/spec easier to use. One of the draws for it (like IB) is the micromanagement and having to juggle defensive target around.

[Rydiak]

I'm with Peter on this. Resource/buff management is a great way to separate good players from great players.

[adamthelc]

It's not really an issue of difficulty. IBs guard passively and do at least some damage as they buff. A melee healer isnt healing as its juggling its buffs. So it is directly effecting your healing throughput.

Add to that all of the other possible down time in not having a target, channeling something or attacks getting defended. It's a lot of time a healer isnt healing.

If there healing is deemed to be high enough even with the downtime then it's a non issue.

Yes better players will do better, but that's true of any class and not really relevant. The issue is can a MWP be a good healer while doing all of the extra stuff it has to do.

At least to me, OP could have been making a different point.

[Tesq]

i was making a second feedback then the forum decided to cancel it all, well short version short, dont say you read feedback if you dont apply anything of the just said feedback (maybe you working on that stuff as this was just previusly worked on well give ya benefith of doubt then, still...)

instead solve any problem linked to last flow fo feedback which pointed from multiple source where problems lies you just made things worst.... again re read previusly feedback for what they asked you (and please.. ignore str based dreamers one).

and last thing , you cant keep ask ppl feedback if you deliberately ignore all those that were give ya and forcefully go your way. you will not recive any further feedback then but jsut whine and then ppl will get sick eventually to drop em on the forum and see em ignored every time. Eventually this will make em move on, and not just about dok/wp but about game as a whole. Those 50+ ppl we gained in primetime would be better not loose it once new itiems grind is over.

few words on new stuff tought:

Spoiler:

-self buff are joke, need passive stuff life is alredy THAT RISK EVEN TANK HAVE PASSIVE BUFF +AND block/parry exist AND dont have time luxory as tank to CIRCUMNAVIAGTE a **** slayer with 70% parry or a kight with 60% parry or a sm with 50-100% parry (and im not even touching difference in hit hardness based on realm here no no cought cough wp life easier as alway cocugh cough...) and i could keep go on....
-you also have shitty str
-you know you need to spec **** DEF, with no str tactic and no spot to put it anyway
-you give less block to shield but then add block self buff, dam fix the shield rate no? insted make us waste any GCD+ fated time to target tab anything decent to hit ????
-if you want an exemple of HOW channelig shoudl work for these classes you have it on 13 pt that is a channeling designed to be
a static healer able to heal while increase your own survabiity by synergy with bubble proc from tactic (heal 9 ppl crit easier
you heal all and bubble yourself, not a channeling which work not even half the time is not usefull under focus and not for being on walls /funnel
-parry tactic new place is a joke right? basically the most important tactic for a melee dok/wp now is in the worst possible spot ever for build access, didn00t you just MOVEED OUT DETAUNT FOR THE SAME REASON... did you just even read any feedback about what that atctic should had been changed ? aka remove heal debuff when shield on???? jeez....)

do you even think about when designig skilsl that the gameplay of a melee dok/wp must be NOT inferior to a ranged dok/wp one do be jsut viable and yet you implementing builds options which imply do suff HARDER THAN RANGED HEALERS?????

-fly down with creativity,
-read more feedbacks from the first wave
-put em in practise
-stay down with immagination and be more concrete.

[adamthelc]

I actually got a chance to try it and keeping up the buffs isnt really that bad. The healing actually seems pretty decent, especially with that new heal.

Still kind of seems like a spec that is good when your side is rolling and not that great when you are losing. But that's kind of how it is with any melee. Also I only pug, so my feedback should be taken with a grain of salt. Seem like it could be pretty cool in a good group.

I'm trying to figure out if it's really worth using divine fury. I have it slotted, but wondering if it does that much or if I would be better with something else.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

i was making a second feedback then the forum decided to cancel it all, well short version short, dont say you read feedback if you dont apply anything of the just said feedback (maybe you working on that stuff as this was just previusly worked on well give ya benefith of doubt then, still...)

instead solve any problem linked to last flow fo feedback which pointed from multiple source where problems lies you just made things worst.... again re read previusly feedback for what they asked you (and please.. ignore str based dreamers one).

and last thing , you cant keep ask ppl feedback if you deliberately ignore all those that were give ya and forcefully go your way. you will not recive any further feedback then but jsut whine and then ppl will get sick eventually to drop em on the forum and see em ignored every time. Eventually this will make em move on, and not just about dok/wp but about game as a whole. Those 50+ ppl we gained in primetime would be better not loose it once new itiems grind is over.

few words on new stuff tought:

Spoiler:

-self buff are joke, need passive stuff life is alredy THAT RISK and block/parry exist and dont have time luxory as tank to CIRCUMNAVIAGTE a **** slayer with 70% parry or a kight with 60% parry or a sm with 50-100% parry (and im not even touching difference in self hit hardness based on realm here no no cought cough wp life easier as alway cocugh cough...) and i could keep go on....
-you also have shitty str
-you know you need to spec **** DEF, with no str tactic and no spot to put it anyway
-you give less block to shield but then add block self buff, dam fix the shield rate no insted make us waste any GCD+ fated time to target tab anything decent to hit ????
-if you want an exemple of HOW channelig shoudl work for these classes you have it on 13 pt that is a channeling designed to be
a static healer able to heal while increase your own survabiity by synergy with bubble proc from tactic (heal 9 ppl crit easier
you heal all and bubble yourself, not a channeling which work not even half the time is not usefull under focus and not for being on walla /funnel

Firstly all feedback solicited is read but you know what, what you see as an issue is what YOU see as an issue and OTHER people have different opinions and THEN there are variables that you haven't even touched on or considered.

Acting like a petulant child and stamping your feet isn't going to get your feedback listened to any more, in fact it diminishes you significantly and your voice is lost in a sea of self indulgent whine. Don't bother responding to me or this thread but do take some time to think if you want to be a part if the process or not because this little cry post you just made? That's exactly how not to do it.

the reality is pretty simple, since it has done alredy in past for other ppl to convince em to tone down;

when i will see correction implemented the exact way i told to fix em (that way because there is reasons related to balance which requrie that and onyl that implementation) "at least once "and i will be prove WRONG on a feedback i will shut up immidiatly and forever with this tone because as it stand now, my feed back are throw away even if i take time to write em with good intention and such, not even once you (not you as person speking generaly regarding all in project history) had test live 1 of my feedback to prove i am wrong idk what you (all) fear about---- maybe that i can be right ? would that be the apocalypse?

-when i said to not move down bg parry tactic on 3 pt becasue was too good? ye well look what happoened...
-wanna talk about to add sh/am meccanic ap cut? took just 2-3 diff implementation to see it implemented it was clery need.
-etc

best way to make me stop and save forum space and prove you (as team) are right to not use any of my feedback is test em live (again teh exact same way the feedback is done not with a variable for then sai it didnt work right=; lets see who get the more variable in his mind right please! i wanna be proved wrong because as it stand now every fail implementation or half working only one prove the opposite, i just see the wasted opportunity to have this game at 1k + ppl on server and with more viable options for all classes aswell.

[wargrimnir]

Spoiler:

i was making a second feedback then the forum decided to cancel it all, well short version short, dont say you read feedback if you dont apply anything of the just said feedback (maybe you working on that stuff as this was just previusly worked on well give ya benefith of doubt then, still...)

instead solve any problem linked to last flow fo feedback which pointed from multiple source where problems lies you just made things worst.... again re read previusly feedback for what they asked you (and please.. ignore str based dreamers one).

and last thing , you cant keep ask ppl feedback if you deliberately ignore all those that were give ya and forcefully go your way. you will not recive any further feedback then but jsut whine and then ppl will get sick eventually to drop em on the forum and see em ignored every time. Eventually this will make em move on, and not just about dok/wp but about game as a whole. Those 50+ ppl we gained in primetime would be better not loose it once new itiems grind is over.

few words on new stuff tought:

Spoiler:

-self buff are joke, need passive stuff life is alredy THAT RISK and block/parry exist and dont have time luxory as tank to CIRCUMNAVIAGTE a **** slayer with 70% parry or a kight with 60% parry or a sm with 50-100% parry (and im not even touching difference in self hit hardness based on realm here no no cought cough wp life easier as alway cocugh cough...) and i could keep go on....
-you also have shitty str
-you know you need to spec **** DEF, with no str tactic and no spot to put it anyway
-you give less block to shield but then add block self buff, dam fix the shield rate no insted make us waste any GCD+ fated time to target tab anything decent to hit ????
-if you want an exemple of HOW channelig shoudl work for these classes you have it on 13 pt that is a channeling designed to be
a static healer able to heal while increase your own survabiity by synergy with bubble proc from tactic (heal 9 ppl crit easier
you heal all and bubble yourself, not a channeling which work not even half the time is not usefull under focus and not for being on walla /funnel

Firstly all feedback solicited is read but you know what, what you see as an issue is what YOU see as an issue and OTHER people have different opinions and THEN there are variables that you haven't even touched on or considered.

Acting like a petulant child and stamping your feet isn't going to get your feedback listened to any more, in fact it diminishes you significantly and your voice is lost in a sea of self indulgent whine. Don't bother responding to me or this thread but do take some time to think if you want to be a part if the process or not because this little cry post you just made? That's exactly how not to do it.

the reality is pretty simple, since it has done alredy in past for other ppl to convince em to tone down;

when i will see correction implemented the exact way i told to fix em (that way because there is reasons related to balance which requrie that and onyl that implementation) "at least once "and i will be prove WRONG on a feedback i will shut up immidiatly and forever with this tone because as it stand now, my feed back are throw away even if i take time to write em with good intention and such, not even once you (not you as person speking generaly regarding all in project history) had test live 1 of my feedback to prove i am wrong idk what you (all) fear about---- maybe that i can be right ? would that be the apocalypse?

-when i said to not move down bg parry tactic on 3 pt becasue was too good? ye well look what happoened...
-wanna talk about to add sh/am meccanic ap cut? took just 2-3 diff implementation to see it implemented it was clery need.
-etc

best way to make me stop and save forum space and prove you (as team) are right to not use any of my feedback is test em live (again teh exact same way the feedback is done not with a variable for then sai it didnt work right=; lets see who get the more variable in his mind right please! i wanna be proved wrong because as it stand now every fail implementation or half working only one prove the opposite, i just see the wasted opportunity to have this game at 1k + ppl on server and with more viable options for all classes aswell.

Taking feedback into consideration doesn't mean implementing that feedback. Sometimes, you might be aware, feedback is exaggerated and cherrypicked to illustrate hyperbolic situations where it's no longer helpful. Sometimes, people push for buffs that aren't warranted, or might already be planned but not implemented yet because this is all a work in progress. Sometimes, people simply want to yell because it wasn't done how they would have imagined it, which is kind of pointless, you're not the ones doing it, and not everything can be implemented at the same time.

You can take some time off the forums. Sort out your delusions and paranoia.

[vanbuinen77]

Reminds me of daoc class valkyries.

On a side note, perhaps some ability ideas can come from the daoc classes.