Roaming almost dead

[Tom]

Hi, for some time now there is hardly any movement in the zones before one side attacks keep. While typing this there are 200+ ppl logged on in t2-t4 with only one zone open (a t3 zone at that), yet hardly any action at all. It should mean great action! The vast majority sit passively on flags until a ram is spawned at least that is usually how it seems when i am logged on.

Roaming in the zone then starts when the ram hits the keep. To bring back roaming (if that is of interest):

- remove the passive rr gain from flags t2-t4 completely
- bring back supply runs (why not?)
- remove portals in t2-t4

Those small things would probably bring life back to the zones for the entire duration of open zones. Whatever purpose those quirks have atm in my humble opinion are vastly outdone by the harm they do to the action for long periods in each zone.

Thanks for a great project!

[Athergic]

I agree with you, It's been dying for a while unfortunately. I have seen a few posts mention it, most of the roamers feel it when they go out in the lakes. The RvR changes are killing the smallscale and roaming scene, I'm not sure what the end result will be, but I hope that it is an enjoyable one.

[Yaliskah]

Hi ! Well, it seems I don't share the same experience even though I understand your worries. To begin with, I don't play (probably) on the same time zone, but my group never exceed 8 players (with a 4-5 players general base) from my own experience :

-There are almost always 2-3 zones opened. Fact is, 95% of population is focused on a single one. Conclusion : Players have the possibility to split on less populated areas to avoid zerg and big mass but don't. Some will argue lack of gain or interest (no opposition, no gain, which is obvious afaik...), but none think about starting the impulsion forcing opposing faction to move. Each time my small team "forced" opponent to react starting to attack a keep, we received 2 warbands in the face destroying ram and returning on most active area.

- According we are roaming since few years, our analysis is a bit different. Before, a faction was waiting behind his keep wall waiting for the siege. Now, they zerg, exploding each BO they cross on their way. Problem of this politic, they crush, but their realm doesn't gain any benefit of this method according they are unable to capitalize to rank up. Spreading being the key in long term.

-We cross multiple small group far from the zerg and have some good and interesting fights. Problem is some maps are not very well-designed to play this kind of "guerrilla" game. Now about general mechanics.

-BO.

--You propose to remove ticks. Would it give you the assurance that those who are staying under it will play as a small group? Answer is no. Or they already would.
--On the other side, a BO stays active and produce resources for 2mins without anyone to keep it before turning neutral. It means there is no reason to stay under BO, unless you make this personal choice.

-Portals.

--Condition to use it has a cost for your realm. Anyone, even Small groups can use it to deploy and it is an interesting mechanics for anyone smart enough to take advantage of it (and avoiding warcamp siege...). Again, if some players enjoy stacking around a BO (cause imo,this is your issue with portals), shall you blame the mechanics or the player choice?
You could propose to remove keep walls because some are hiding behind, it would be the same .

-Supplies.

--Ahh:). According the amount of non returned supplies on the floor during my play time, i really wonder what you mean, cause im
o, it seems players don't give a great interest about it.


My conclusion.

Open RvR, by his name is Open. Which means anyone is able to join at any moment and find his place in the puzzle. As said my guild don't follow the mass as much as possible and even our cession can be unequal, it depends more on population/AAO than BO standing. I'm in contact with some other guilds experiencing the same. I guess, if i play in small group, if you play in small group, if some still play in small group it is possible to anyone wants too. Ofc, the less interested with, the less you will find some. You can blame mechanics, and well, you can be right as i can be too in the same time. But as my keep wall example, there is some level where you must ask yourself about players mentality (and there is no offense when i say this). Some want everything for nothing. Some just want to follow. Some are just soloing. But changing mechanics won't change players mind and won't transform a BO keeper on a premade fan.


On a positive note

ORvR reworks is 70% implemented atm (on the base of the blueprint presented last year). Finishing and refining work has started these last days.
-Some adjustments were planned to reduce ticks amount on the base of number of players around. Never deployed for some reasons. But it should be in the next weeks.
-Some adjustment are planned about supplies too, like dropping it at warcamps
.

[Manatikik]

Hi !

Well, it seems i don't share the same experience even though I understand your worries.

To begin with, i don't play (probably) on the same time zone, but my group never exceed 8 players (with a 4-5 players general base) from my own experience :

- There are almost always 2-3 zones opened. Fact is, 95% of population is focused on a single one. Conclusion : Players have the possibility to split on less populated areas to avoid zerg and big mass but don't. Some will argue lack of gain or interest (no opposition, no gain, which is obvious afaik...), but none think about starting the implusion forcing oposing factin to move. EAch time my small team "forced" oponent to react starting to attack a keep, we received 2 warbands in the face destroying ram and returning on most active area.

- According we are roaming since few years, our analysis is a bit different. Before, a faction was waiting behinf his keep wall waiting for the siege. Now, they zerg, exploding each BO they cross on their way. Problem of this politic, they crush, but their realm doesn't gain any benefit of this method according they are unable to capitalize to rank up. Spreading being the key in long term.

- We cross multiple small group far from the zerg and have some good and interesting fights. Problem is some maps are not very well designed to play this kind of "guerilla" game.

Now about general mechanics.

-BO.
--You propose to remove ticks. Would it give you the assurance that those who are staying under it will play as a small group? answer is no. Or they already would.
--On the other side, a BO stays active and produce resources for 2 mins without anyone to keep it before turning neutral. Which means there is no reason to stay under unless you make this personnal choice.

-Portals.
--Condition to use it have a cost for your reealm. Anyone, even Small groups can use it to deploy and it is an interesting mechanics for anyone smart enough to take advantage of it. Again, if some players enjoy to stack around a BO (cause imo, THIS is your issue with portals), shall you blame the mechanics or the player choice? You could propose to remove keep walls because some are hidding behind, it would be the same imo.

-Supplies.
--Ahh . According the amount of non returned supplies on the floor during my play time, i really wonder what you mean, cuase imo, it seems players don't give a great interest about it.

My conclusion.

Open RvR, by definition is Open. Which means anyone is able to join at any moment and find his place in the puzzle. As said my guild don't follow the mass as much as possible and even our cession can be unequal, it depends more of population/AAO, active zone, faction move than BO standing. I'm in contact with some other guilds sharing the same analisys. I guess, if i play in small group, if you play in small group, if some still play in small group it is possible to anyone wants too. Ofc, the less interested with, the less you will find some. You can blame mechanics, and well, you can be right as i can be too in the same time.

But as my keep wall exemple, at some level where you must ask yourself about players mentality ( and there is no offense when i say this). Some want everything for nothing. Some just want to follow. Some are just soloing. But changing mechanics won't change players mind and won't transform a BO keeper on a premade fan. And you and me can't "force" them to be what we want.

On a positive note.
ORvR reworks is 70% implemented atm (on the base of the blueprint presented last year). Finishing and refining work has started these last days.
-Some adjustments were planned to reduce ticks amount on the base of number of players around. Never deployed for some reasons. But it should be in the next weeks.
-Some adjustment are planned about supplies too, like droping it at warcamps.

A big current issue for non-primetime that you don't see due to time zone difference is simply due to poorly implemented mechanics that are soley balanced around prime time. Malus for example absolutely kills any ORvR action outside of Keeps in non-primetime due to how fast you get it and how sever it is. I can kill someone when there is no malus and get 1.5k RR from them, kill the same person with malus (even from just 20-40% AAO, which is the minimum during off-peak hours just due to number %'s) and get 1 RR. This makes fights meaningless for searching them out for casual players. Every player I talk to from NA and off-peak times has repeatedly said Malus is one of the worst things to happen to this server. This has only made the BO sitting worse as it encourages the more populated side to just sit on 2 BO's, not have any open field fights, get rank 1, and then spawn a ram and start a fight. Malus causes the overpopulated realm to stay zerged on BO's because why look for fights that give you less than one minute of BO ticks AND the underpopulated realm has no incentive to roam the lakes because the zerging side won't be anywhere besides their 1 or 2 BO's in greater numbers.

Another big flaw is the fact that you cannot swap zones without forfeiting your spoils of past effort. Sure I may have 200% aao in a different zone but if that doesn't pop-up until I've already been in the first zone for an hour I not only don't have an incentive to leave but in fact am being punished for trying to split up the zerg by forfeiting the spoils of the first zone. This is completely counter-intuitive to everything the staff says they are aiming for for ORvR and will only be exacerbated (I believe) when Fortresses drop.

[Yaliskah]

A big current issue for non-primetime that you don't see due to time zone difference is simply due to poorly implemented mechanics that are soley balanced around prime time. Malus for example absolutely kills any ORvR action outside of Keeps in non-primetime due to how fast you get it and how sever it is. I can kill someone when there is no malus and get 1.5k RR from them, kill the same person with malus (even from just 20-40% AAO, which is the minimum during off-peak hours just due to number %'s) and get 1 RR. This makes fights meaningless for searching them out for casual players. Every player I talk to from NA and off-peak times has repeatedly said Malus is one of the worst things to happen to this server. This has only made the BO sitting worse as it encourages the more populated side to just sit on 2 BO's, not have any open field fights, get rank 1, and then spawn a ram and start a fight. Malus causes the overpopulated realm to stay zerged on BO's because why look for fights that give you less than one minute of BO ticks AND the underpopulated realm has no incentive to roam the lakes because the zerging side won't be anywhere besides their 1 or 2 BO's in greater numbers.

At a personnal level, i share your concern with AAO systems (past and present), and options are discussed behind the curtain about it. But this wasn't the OP diagnosis/point.

Another big flaw is the fact that you cannot swap zones without forfeiting your spoils of past effort. Sure I may have 200% aao in a different zone but if that doesn't pop-up until I've already been in the first zone for an hour I not only don't have an incentive to leave but in fact am being punished for trying to split up the zerg by forfeiting the spoils of the first zone. This is completely counter-intuitive to everything the staff says they are aiming for for ORvR and will only be exacerbated (I believe) when Fortresses drop.

WHAT Oo? Unless i haven't undersdtood what you say (which is possible), or i missed something in ORvR dev (will ask...), what you tell me is an urban legend... You don't lose your contribution for a dedicated zone if you swap in another one. You can swap on multiple areas during your playing cession ( on the same character) without losing anything... On the contrary, you multiply your contributions sources... Spending my nights to chase AAO...

[Tom]

TY for the reply!

-I dont expect removing renown points and ranking keep by passively standing at flags would make large-scale minded people go small scale, I would agree with you on that. I am all for different play styles mixed over the maps. That isnt my point. My point is, if one NEEDS to move supplies to rank a keep then you SHOULD get more movement in zone.

- No portals, same thing, if people cant just teleport that means more movement unless they stay in WC (in which case, why log on?). Yes, they allow for interesting tactics, but as I said those benefits come with less movement in the zone as they are currently used by many.

Why I mentioned only one zone was open was only to emphasize that if there is little action when there is only ONE zone open, then there is not likely to be more action when there are more zones. We certainly 'shop around' to try find the most active zone but the number of open zones do not change the mechanic, which I, rightly or wrongly, believe influence the activity in the zones to a large extent.

[Manatikik]

A big current issue for non-primetime that you don't see due to time zone difference is simply due to poorly implemented mechanics that are soley balanced around prime time. Malus for example absolutely kills any ORvR action outside of Keeps in non-primetime due to how fast you get it and how sever it is. I can kill someone when there is no malus and get 1.5k RR from them, kill the same person with malus (even from just 20-40% AAO, which is the minimum during off-peak hours just due to number %'s) and get 1 RR. This makes fights meaningless for searching them out for casual players. Every player I talk to from NA and off-peak times has repeatedly said Malus is one of the worst things to happen to this server. This has only made the BO sitting worse as it encourages the more populated side to just sit on 2 BO's, not have any open field fights, get rank 1, and then spawn a ram and start a fight. Malus causes the overpopulated realm to stay zerged on BO's because why look for fights that give you less than one minute of BO ticks AND the underpopulated realm has no incentive to roam the lakes because the zerging side won't be anywhere besides their 1 or 2 BO's in greater numbers.

At a personnal level, i share your concern with AAO systems (past and present), and options are discussed behind the curtain about it. But this wasn't the OP diagnosis/point.

Another big flaw is the fact that you cannot swap zones without forfeiting your spoils of past effort. Sure I may have 200% aao in a different zone but if that doesn't pop-up until I've already been in the first zone for an hour I not only don't have an incentive to leave but in fact am being punished for trying to split up the zerg by forfeiting the spoils of the first zone. This is completely counter-intuitive to everything the staff says they are aiming for for ORvR and will only be exacerbated (I believe) when Fortresses drop.

WHAT Oo? Unless i haven't undersdtood what you say (which is possible), or i missed something in ORvR dev (will ask...), what you tell me is an urban legend... You don't lose your contribution for a dedicated zone if you swap in another one. You can swap on multiple areas during your playing cession ( on the same character) without losing anything... On the contrary, you multiply your contributions sources... Spending my nights to chase AAO...

Well i'm glad i'm apparently mistaken on that point!

[Yaliskah]

Interesting point is that we need at some point to make clear and clean tutorial, cause it seems there are lot of misunderstanding of the general system (like for rolls...).

[abodam]

I would say, in my opinion, Malus might be biggest reason which is killing roaming. Our group usually give up any fighting in RvR, when enemies have 80%+ AAO. We just move to SCs or log off due to no actual rewards for killing rather than AFK zerg.

Otherwise current RvR system is quite good, Caledor from yesterday is nice example (Keep retake back and locking the zone).

[ragafury]

The malus is terrible no matter what.
Played a new char to 40 before 2x rr and used 2x rr than to plow through the 40/rr5+ phase.
Only solo and for a majority duo.

You get no vanq medals or no reward at all cause they all downgraded, even if you kill a high renown target with rr80+.

Played all timezones in that phase, so it doesn't matter.

Do you hit with this malus ppl who are established rr80 and have the gear or are you demotivating new players?

I sorted my vanq and my rr70+ on that char because i was ready, willing, able, but for new players.. You just cuck them.