Very reasonable sc solution

[Collateral]

Removing pug scs won't promote anything. You can try it, but it won't help in making more premades. I can't see how it even would. You seem to forget that the great majority of players here are old players, now with jobs, kids, family etc., i.e. they are not someone who would be going on discord every day to group with 5 other people to fight against the other 6 mans. They log in for a couple hours to relax a bit and play a game they missed (hell I'm a student and now play mostly to chill out). Same thing goes for warbands, but there really isn't many hardcore premade warbands left (maybe one or two I guess). Also you can't quite compare rvr with scs. In rvr you can get flanked by another warband or two at any moment, while in scs it's a pitched battle with equal numbers at all sides. Also in rvr you can simply change the zone (tho that doesn't really happen often), while in scs you can't do anything when there are premades on, only stop queuing.

Imo removing pug sc would do the exact opposite. People would simply stop playing scs cuz they would be riddled with known strong premades who would just be farming everyone else (as if it's any different now, at least we have one pug sc).

Spoiler:

What I think could be better, is make the t3 scs 31-39. Then t4 can then be split up into a couple more tiers by rr. Maybe something like rr 40-59 for lower tier, then 60-80 for higher. This means that everyone in your group must be rr 60+ if you want to queue for that tier, or rr 40+ (and not bigger than 59 ofc) for the lower tier. You can make one or two scs for each tier be specifically for 6 man groups, if they wish to do 6v6. That way you won't be getting rr 40-60 groups fighting rr70-80 ones, or even full 80 groups, which I would think there are a couple on the server. I think it would also allow people to fight in a level playing field, against opponents with similar skill, which means it will be easier to gain experience with your group as you fight through the tiers, eventually coming up against the higher premades to test what you learned. Well that would be the ideal world at least. The same system would be for pug scs, 40-59 and 60-80 (although there probably isn't enough people for that now, and would split the population even more). All of this can be done for rvr as well (not exactly the same though). Maybe it's just me, but I feel the quality of rvr has gone down significantly since the inclusion of rank 16+ players (if you think it's enjoyable for premade wb to melt a lowbie pug wb you're wrong, it's exactly the same like in scs).

Separate the tiers to low tier, mid tier and high tier. Mid tier being rank 16-39, high tier rank 40+. Anyway, this is for another topic.

The sc system I mentioned would also keep high level players from fighting rank 31 lowbies of course. There is just no fun in that (at least for the majority I hope). It sucks even in pug sc when your group is made 80% from lowbies (it can happen and has happened to me and many others I'm sure). Now imagine if a premade was on the other side. Waste of time for everyone. No one learns anything, lowbies get no xp or rp, and the premade is just bored. Just don't tell me 'well they can at least try and fight'. Everyone knows how quickly lowbies explode against premades, a whole group can die literally within a minute. How does it even make sense to fight then, and how would people not feel like **** after that. You literally can't do anything. Well it's similar when a new premade fights a vastly better one. They get steam rolled a couple of times and lose motivation.

People need room for developing. You can't just toss then into the fire, no matter in what aspect of the game. They will just get frustrated and disappointed. The tier system I explained would also split people up by available gear. What will happen when sovereign, warlord, tyrant and what ever else gets released? Can you even imagine full sov groups/players fighting rank 31s? Absolute massacre (not that it's much different now, can't even imagine with higher gear). I know devs said many times that there won't be huge power creeps, and I'm glad for that. But gear still makes a difference. Maybe it's not a huge difference when two good groups are fighting, but for pugs it is. How much boost will the lowbies need then? They will still miss a tactic slot, mastery abilities and what not (main thing for me being experience with the game/archetype they play).

Idk I'm just day dreaming probably. Maybe something like this isn't even possible. And I didn't think about this for months, rather I just thought about it now, so it has potentially many cons I overlooked. Ramble is over.

[wargrimnir]

Making a new topic every couple of days doesn't change the fact we don't have a problem with current system and we're not looking for answers to a problem that doesn't really exist.

Both sides have equal opportunity to pull in low rank players. You drastically reduce that chance by forming a full group. Or you have a handy excuse for why you lost otherwise, surely it has nothing to do with solo pug mentality in a team based game.

Here's the real reasonable solution. Don't play a team game if you're afraid of being in a team. It really does solve all of your "problems". If you insist on solo pug mentality, than suffer the consequences as this system is not, and will not be, fully tailored for your expectations.

[wargrimnir]

I've listened to people talk about how groups of veteran players would leave the game if you punished them by taking away their cannon fodder rank 31 opponents. LOLOL. IMO, let them leave. I have never seen such grown adults act like such whiney babies when it comes to suggesting not to abuse rank 31s. Actually I watch these kinds of people shut down free speech debates on college campuses on Youtube, so I have seen these kinds of whiney people, but I don't think we should cater to them.

I hope everybody pays very careful attention to who is looking out for the entirety of all players, and not just a select demographic.

This is the toxic part of the post I took issue with, it's apparently being interpreted otherwise. Calling veteran players of the game a bunch of whiney babies and invoking political drama as a comparison to their own opinions is enough for me to at least say something about it.

We have heard opinions about the pug scenario many times in the past. We have provided our own views of the pug scenario and as stated, it works well enough. When topics like this come up, we let them ride for a bit so people can get their opinions in, but it really is beating a dead horse, we've heard all the same things before. When topics get locked, don't take it so personally. It's just time to move on, and hopefully in a more productive direction. (You might note I'm using we quite a bit in this context as it's not simply my own personal opinion)


The following is the message actually sent for the warning to the OP, which is pretty standard when we see someone starting to go down this path. It's a warning. I do try to keep track of people that are growing increasingly hostile to try and get them to pull back a little bit.

Your brief time on the forums are growing increasingly more toxic with each post. If this continues you will collect more warnings and eventually be removed.

It's not as scary as it sounds, but it is a pretty standard warning.