[Feedback] Changes of morale

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peterthepan3
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#21 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:07 pm

Initially I thought only the pumps were reverted, but it seems that base morale values have also been increased...why? M1 is up within 15 seconds, M2 is up within 30s: it just turns the play into nothing but 'who can get their morales up quicker'. The values were changed to pre-patch values for a reason. Deafening Bellow now being an M2, coupled with some tanks being able to get their M4s up very quickly, simply stalls the PvP.

Base value gains were in a very good place from a smallscale (6v6) PoV. Having spent 3 hours doing SC yesterday (refer to Norkali's stream), it felt outrageous to be getting my M3 in a very short space of time. Our tanks had their CHCH/Demolish M1 ready after only a few seconds.

I would strongly suggest reverting base morale gain to value it was at before, while keeping pump gains so that they are still worth speccing for (this also promotes speccing for anti-morale abilities/tactics).
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#22 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:12 pm

wonshot wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:00 pm
So just from testing ingame rates being in combat;

A zealot can obtain Focused mind with its selfpump after landing a crit on each of the internal self-pump cooldowns, after 10sec. where as a runepriest will take 28secounds depending on moral-gain gear.

Thats alot of fast resses in 6v6 or groupheal spamming in Warband play.

For a roaming warband perspective and order Bias its looking like this;

With the ammount of selfpumps available on destroside not only do they get more moral bombs ready for turtling(destro tanks with selfpumps compared to none on order), extending 10sec clashes to 30sec clashes with their tank selfpumps or shaman grouppumps, to get a wincondition.

Destro can also better moral-strip with marauder who can do their own moral bomb at 28,8sec
or simply just use match the order wincondition of 10sec M2 on Sorc now

Will provide video examples after tonights run compared to last few week's footage
you ppl never stop to amaze me, what boost 4 classes (BO/CH/sorc/zeal) on destru moral wise boost bw aswell, considering that all those 4 classes need to do something they cant (m4 vs off morales) or they wont make in time to coutner ( bw reach off moral 2 fasteR than tanks and des dps on m3). you're bias is off spot .....

mara is another matter if you have problem with it ask to fix wh moral drain
and make it aswell a propper viable class for the main aspect of the game which is rvr.
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#23 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:13 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:07 pm
Initially I thought only the pumps were reverted, but it seems that base morale values have also been increased...why? M1 is up within 15 seconds, M2 is up within 30s: it just turns the play into nothing but 'who can get their morales up quicker'. The values were changed to pre-patch values for a reason. Deafening Bellow now being an M2, coupled with some tanks being able to get their M4s up very quickly, simply stalls the PvP.

Base value gains were in a very good place from a smallscale (6v6) PoV. Having spent 3 hours doing SC yesterday (refer to Norkali's stream), it felt outrageous to be getting my M3 in a very short space of time. Our tanks had their CHCH/Demolish M1 ready after only a few seconds.

I would strongly suggest reverting base morale gain to value it was at before, while keeping pump gains so that they are still worth speccing for (this also promotes speccing for anti-morale abilities/tactics).
When you say before what values do you mean? because with scalar it was not a set value... And as stated the morale gain can be changed not an issue and thats why this thread is here, just getting rid of a dumb scalar
wonshot wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:00 pm
So just from testing ingame rates being in combat;

A zealot can obtain Focused mind with its selfpump after landing a crit on each of the internal self-pump cooldowns, after 10sec. where as a runepriest will take 28secounds depending on moral-gain gear.

Thats alot of fast resses in 6v6 or groupheal spamming in Warband play.

For a roaming warband perspective and order Bias its looking like this;

With the ammount of selfpumps available on destroside not only do they get more moral bombs ready for turtling(destro tanks with selfpumps compared to none on order), extending 10sec clashes to 30sec clashes with their tank selfpumps or shaman grouppumps, to get a wincondition.

Destro can also better moral-strip with marauder who can do their own moral bomb at 28,8sec
or simply just use match the order wincondition of 10sec M2 on Sorc now

Will provide video examples after tonights run compared to last few week's footage
Yes but there is no change between the realms from before patch so its not meant to address any realm imbalance on that, just the overall gain and drain of morale.
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Likeaboss
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#24 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:20 pm

Tesq wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:12 pm
Spoiler:
wonshot wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:00 pm
So just from testing ingame rates being in combat;

A zealot can obtain Focused mind with its selfpump after landing a crit on each of the internal self-pump cooldowns, after 10sec. where as a runepriest will take 28secounds depending on moral-gain gear.

Thats alot of fast resses in 6v6 or groupheal spamming in Warband play.

For a roaming warband perspective and order Bias its looking like this;

With the ammount of selfpumps available on destroside not only do they get more moral bombs ready for turtling(destro tanks with selfpumps compared to none on order), extending 10sec clashes to 30sec clashes with their tank selfpumps or shaman grouppumps, to get a wincondition.

Destro can also better moral-strip with marauder who can do their own moral bomb at 28,8sec
or simply just use match the order wincondition of 10sec M2 on Sorc now

Will provide video examples after tonights run compared to last few week's footage
you ppl never stop to amaze me, what boost 4 classes (BO/CH/sorc/zeal) on destru moral wise boost bw aswell, considering that all those 4 classes need to do something they cant (m4 vs off morales) or they wont make in time to coutner ( bw reach off moral 2 fasteR than tanks and des dps on m3). you're bias is off spot .....

mara is another matter if you have problem with it ask to fix wh moral drain
and make it aswell a propper viable class for the main aspect of the game which is rvr.
This thread is about experience with the new Moral patch , not about Order / Destro balance stuff... Don't forget that

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peterthepan3
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#25 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:20 pm

@Natherul

If I recall correctly, values for 18v18 (or less) were circa 10 morale/second, increasing with the more people you brought into the vicinity, from 18 to a maximum of 72; it didn't have an impact on scenarios before. Whatever the value was (can't have been more than 12/second), I don't believe the scaler was affecting 18v18 or less before, so the morale gain was at an acceptable level.

EDIT: Found source

'Morale regenerates at 10 points per second. The rate of Morale regeneration is further increased by the following factors:

Number of players in your group - Number of enemies nearby (bonus begins at 18 enemies and caps at 72 enemies)
The above factors are multiplicative, with the maximum scaler being x3.6 for 36 morale per second. No bonus will be received for being solo in a field of enemies, nor will a bonus be received for having a group with less than 18 enemies in range.
'
Last edited by peterthepan3 on Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tesq
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#26 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:33 pm

Spoiler:
Likeaboss wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:20 pm
Tesq wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:12 pm
Spoiler:
wonshot wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:00 pm
So just from testing ingame rates being in combat;

A zealot can obtain Focused mind with its selfpump after landing a crit on each of the internal self-pump cooldowns, after 10sec. where as a runepriest will take 28secounds depending on moral-gain gear.

Thats alot of fast resses in 6v6 or groupheal spamming in Warband play.

For a roaming warband perspective and order Bias its looking like this;

With the ammount of selfpumps available on destroside not only do they get more moral bombs ready for turtling(destro tanks with selfpumps compared to none on order), extending 10sec clashes to 30sec clashes with their tank selfpumps or shaman grouppumps, to get a wincondition.

Destro can also better moral-strip with marauder who can do their own moral bomb at 28,8sec
or simply just use match the order wincondition of 10sec M2 on Sorc now

Will provide video examples after tonights run compared to last few week's footage
you ppl never stop to amaze me, what boost 4 classes (BO/CH/sorc/zeal) on destru moral wise boost bw aswell, considering that all those 4 classes need to do something they cant (m4 vs off morales) or they wont make in time to coutner ( bw reach off moral 2 fasteR than tanks and des dps on m3). you're bias is off spot .....

mara is another matter if you have problem with it ask to fix wh moral drain
and make it aswell a propper viable class for the main aspect of the game which is rvr.
This thread is about experience with the new Moral patch , not about Order / Destro balance stuff... Don't forget that
he made a pointless rant about destru have more moral advantage, not me...
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wonshot
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#27 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:42 pm

Tesq wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:12 pm

you ppl never stop to amaze me, what boost 4 classes (BO/CH/sorc/zeal) on destru moral wise boost bw aswell, considering that all those 4 classes need to do something they cant (m4 vs off morales) or they wont make in time to coutner ( bw reach off moral 2 fasteR than tanks and des dps on m3). you're bias is off spot .....

mara is another matter if you have problem with it ask to fix wh moral drain
and make it aswell a propper viable class for the main aspect of the game which is rvr.
Can you stop posting, just for the sake of posting please?
OFC I account for BW/sorc m2. As I mentioned the 10sec fights.

My post was about if you have general increased moral gain(currently 25 per sec) + the better availability on a realm to pump morals
BO/choppa cooldowns/shamans group pump AND a Procentage increaser, those Blackorcs will reach moral rather danm fast and this is a legit concirn since BOs are so strong for grouplay in both group or warband play. (currently almost all warband groups run with 1 or even 2 Blackords and make our a big damage threat when they reach Raze in unmatched fasion on order-tank moral-gains)

The only reason I bring realm balance into this, is because of how moral rate will affect this matter, no matter how you twist and turn it.

Now stop posting just to increase your post-count, please its stalling any debates you get involved in.
#Edit since you still run your mouth, YES sorc have gotten a complet M2 offensive Moral drop. Its called "Shatter" and has been in the game for WAY too long and been upsetting the overall moral-minigame. And with that point alone you once again show you should not be posting in these debates!
Last edited by wonshot on Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tesq
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#28 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:51 pm

wonshot wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:42 pm
Tesq wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:12 pm

you ppl never stop to amaze me, what boost 4 classes (BO/CH/sorc/zeal) on destru moral wise boost bw aswell, considering that all those 4 classes need to do something they cant (m4 vs off morales) or they wont make in time to coutner ( bw reach off moral 2 fasteR than tanks and des dps on m3). you're bias is off spot .....

mara is another matter if you have problem with it ask to fix wh moral drain
and make it aswell a propper viable class for the main aspect of the game which is rvr.
Can you stop posting, just for the sake of posting please?
OFC I account for BW/sorc m2. As I mentioned the 10sec fights.

My post was about if you have general increased moral gain + the better availability on a realm to pump morals
BO/choppa cooldowns/shamans group pump AND a Procentage increaser, those Blackorcs will reach moral rather danm fast and this is a legit concirn since BOs are so strong for grouplay in both group or warband play.

The only reason I bring realm balance into this, is because of how moral rate will affect this matter, no matter how you twist and turn it.

Now stop posting jut to increase your post-count, please its stalling any debates you get involved in.

you bring concern where there isnt:

first thing first sorc do not have an off m2 like bw, point
any def morales 4 CH/BO can offer is irrelevant vs bw m2, point
any def morales des may offer over 20 sec is to coutner 1 / 2 of those nice kobs tactic you have active 100% of the time, while the other is blast wave, and rest is bo/sm balance; point,

there isn't a concern des vs order sy you making up stuff since it's from last patch that moreal pump on ch/bo/zeal has been un-nerfed and ther hasnt been any significal concern; now the moral gain faster for everyone ; the moral access is the same of the previously patch it just build faster.

i dont agree that it build this fast either but there is no concern of order vs destru here while (i can be wrong) seems all your podt try to point to in every thread i saw around.

edit: someone pointed me on whisp in game that i miss the sorc change of m2, just to add my consideration here;
- BO/CH m4, save me hide/blast wave , balancing kobs tactics each other; rest is bo/sm. if bw/sorc + squig/slayer are pretty much balanced in wb utility then the comps are balanced at max; there is no such thing as destru moral advantage since still again def morales dont work vs off morales. Now that one person should be happy cheers
Last edited by Tesq on Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#29 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:05 pm

I'd like to express my feedback in a list of pros and cons.

Pros:
- Fights became much faster and exciting. Gameplay received good portion of steroids.
- It brought more diversity to builds since m4s stopped to be something that happens only at forts snooze-fest-funneling (which is also get some speed-up and it's good)
- Gave a breath of fresh air to Rdps classes which were stomped by super mobile mdps.
- Gameplay became just a bit more complex since you have to predict and expect your opponents to use their morals which became something to play around, counter-play and solid part of the whole game.

Cons:
- Some people are concerned that it may bring morals dumps into the game.
that wouldn't an issue if amount of moral pumps matched amount of moral drains.
- Excludes possible turtling in some cases (you can't fight for too long because morals will resolve it quite soon) but brings it to the table in other cases (rely heavily on m3-4s and just survive till them). Quite controversial.
Again if there were more ways to prevent people from getting quick m4s it wouldn't be an issue most likely.
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Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#30 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:32 pm

Ill reiterate again that gains can be easily (from my side) lowered if needed. Also note that bigger base gain means that effectively pumps are worse as they already builds fast without them.

That said I personally agree that 25 is too much as well but I erred on the side of caution as the last time we changed morale people were up in arms about it. Biggest point was to remove a scalar which made 0 sense and only caused confusion to players and added a stomp mechanic to the realm that was currently already outnumbering their enemies and as such already had an advantage.
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