[Feedback] Changes of morale

We want to hear your thoughts and ideas.

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use
User avatar
peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#131 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:44 pm

Gains are still OTT in Smallscale in conjunction with pumps, with morale dumps dictating a lot more of the play now than had been the case. Smallscale PvP that is reduced to nothing more than morale plays is incredibly boring, and really dumbs down the skill prerequisite in competitive play.

To keep them at current value would simply mandate introducing a plethora of new drains and pumps, spread across all classes, which seems like a behemothian balance task, and unnecessary, if you ask me.
Last edited by peterthepan3 on Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Image

Ads
User avatar
Acidic
Posts: 1068
Contact:

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#132 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:05 pm

moral gain is still too high, the game is centering around morals more than targeting and skills.
Start fight hold till m2 , collect free cheese

mubbl
Posts: 141

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#133 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:39 pm

Acidic wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:05 pm
moral gain is still too high, the game is centering around morals more than targeting and skills.
Start fight hold till m2 , collect free cheese
think you are reffering mostly to pumps, basice mgain is not the big problem in my op. a basic pump with 200 moral every 3 secs saves you around 10 secs of gain atm.

Deadkiller
Posts: 71

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#134 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:17 pm

i think moral gains are ok atm without pumps and drains ofc. But if the pumps come in its just to fast in my opinion and just tend to bring boring fights in the lakes cuz its just holding position, gain moral and dump all away. so moral itself looks fine. Lets see how it will work if you do some changes on pumps and drains :)

anarchypark
Posts: 1259

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#135 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Natherul wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:57 pm

Was disregarding pumps so far since I wanted base set before looking with pumps and drains

rate is also build time.
do u think 1:2 ratio of m1:m2 and m3:m4,
1:5 ratio of m1:m3 and m2:m4
is ok?
if so, it should be reflected in effectiveness of skills.
i know it's ongoing mission but plz don't stop at pump/drains after base set.
SM8, SW7, AM7, WL4, KoBS4, WP7, WH4, SL3
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE5, Ch6, Magi7, Mara6, Ze4, BO3, SH4, Shm5
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2018.10.26)

User avatar
Natherul
Lead Developer
Posts: 2898
Contact:

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#136 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:17 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:08 pm
Natherul wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:57 pm

Was disregarding pumps so far since I wanted base set before looking with pumps and drains

rate is also build time.
do u think 1:2 ratio of m1:m2 and m3:m4,
1:5 ratio of m1:m3 and m2:m4
is ok?
if so, it should be reflected in effectiveness of skills.
i know it's ongoing mission but plz don't stop at pump/drains after base set.
I think that scale is fine. And working on morales was something we started with before this morale change (tank morale overhaul) thats still ongoing in the discussion phase.

Ill still leave the first question for a few days to gather feedback if others think 20/s is fine or not. After that we start looking at pumps and drains
Lead dev does not mean I´m the best coder around, it just means I have taken on a management role for the devs.
Join the Unofficial IRC
Or the Official Discord
Idrinth´s addon database and client

User avatar
Acidic
Posts: 1068
Contact:

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#137 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:42 pm

mubbl wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:39 pm
Acidic wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:05 pm
moral gain is still too high, the game is centering around morals more than targeting and skills.
Start fight hold till m2 , collect free cheese
think you are reffering mostly to pumps, basice mgain is not the big problem in my op. a basic pump with 200 moral every 3 secs saves you around 10 secs of gain atm.
No I did not mean moral pump, with moral pump it’s silly atm but as Natherul will look at that later I took this out of my thinking.
So I believe still 20 without pump is too fast and would like to see 15 as the number, 10 probably too low but 20 too fast

User avatar
Collateral
Posts: 1447

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#138 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:40 am

Spoiler:
Why look at pumps and drains when you still didn't say what morales should even be doing? Again, you are solving this problem from a wrong angle imo. I still don't see what your idea about morales is. Yea there is that tank morale thread, but that didn't seem to yield any conclusions at all (pretty much like any such thread, there's just too many opinions. And I didn't realize it's ongoing). And then what about other archetypes?

Maybe I am wrong, but I think that the first thing to do is figure out the morales themselves. What should they do? How strong should they be? Who should have what types (i.e. should tanks and healers have damage morales)? You started good with tank morales, but it just seems it stopped dead in its tracks. Morales are a core mechanic of this game, and fiddling around with morale gain, and then drains and pumps can lead to more problems than solutions.

I'm glad you guys are involving the community in this important issue. But I would like you to be more clear about your intentions. Maybe I'm too stupid to realize them if you already mentioned them. In that case sorry if I'm getting boring.
Image

Ads
User avatar
Natherul
Lead Developer
Posts: 2898
Contact:

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#139 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:21 am

Collateral wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:40 am
Spoiler:
Why look at pumps and drains when you still didn't say what morales should even be doing? Again, you are solving this problem from a wrong angle imo. I still don't see what your idea about morales is. Yea there is that tank morale thread, but that didn't seem to yield any conclusions at all (pretty much like any such thread, there's just too many opinions. And I didn't realize it's ongoing). And then what about other archetypes?

Maybe I am wrong, but I think that the first thing to do is figure out the morales themselves. What should they do? How strong should they be? Who should have what types (i.e. should tanks and healers have damage morales)? You started good with tank morales, but it just seems it stopped dead in its tracks. Morales are a core mechanic of this game, and fiddling around with morale gain, and then drains and pumps can lead to more problems than solutions.

I'm glad you guys are involving the community in this important issue. But I would like you to be more clear about your intentions. Maybe I'm too stupid to realize them if you already mentioned them. In that case sorry if I'm getting boring.
The other archetypes are scheduled one after another, We just started with tanks. As for what morales should do is to be amazing abilities in either offensive, defensive or utilitarian in nature. With the tank morale overhaul we also attempt to make a baseline for what the morales should do in powerscale dependent on what level of morale they are (however this is not as easy as one might think) and other factors such as pumps in the realm. We also strive to make the speccable M4 actually worthwhile as they are a significant investment. Morales should be an ability that feels awesome to use but not something (at least higher levels) that you can weave into each minute of combat.
Lead dev does not mean I´m the best coder around, it just means I have taken on a management role for the devs.
Join the Unofficial IRC
Or the Official Discord
Idrinth´s addon database and client

User avatar
Collateral
Posts: 1447

Re: [Feedback] Changes of morale

Post#140 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:07 am

Natherul wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:21 am
Collateral wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:40 am
Spoiler:
Why look at pumps and drains when you still didn't say what morales should even be doing? Again, you are solving this problem from a wrong angle imo. I still don't see what your idea about morales is. Yea there is that tank morale thread, but that didn't seem to yield any conclusions at all (pretty much like any such thread, there's just too many opinions. And I didn't realize it's ongoing). And then what about other archetypes?

Maybe I am wrong, but I think that the first thing to do is figure out the morales themselves. What should they do? How strong should they be? Who should have what types (i.e. should tanks and healers have damage morales)? You started good with tank morales, but it just seems it stopped dead in its tracks. Morales are a core mechanic of this game, and fiddling around with morale gain, and then drains and pumps can lead to more problems than solutions.

I'm glad you guys are involving the community in this important issue. But I would like you to be more clear about your intentions. Maybe I'm too stupid to realize them if you already mentioned them. In that case sorry if I'm getting boring.
The other archetypes are scheduled one after another, We just started with tanks. As for what morales should do is to be amazing abilities in either offensive, defensive or utilitarian in nature. With the tank morale overhaul we also attempt to make a baseline for what the morales should do in powerscale dependent on what level of morale they are (however this is not as easy as one might think) and other factors such as pumps in the realm. We also strive to make the speccable M4 actually worthwhile as they are a significant investment. Morales should be an ability that feels awesome to use but not something (at least higher levels) that you can weave into each minute of combat.
Thanks for clarification. So if I understand, all archetypes can share those 3 types of morale and you won't be splitting them up, at least not completely? Some morales certainly are awesome while many others aren't, as we all know.

You don't want them to be used every minute (m4s at least), and that's understandable. So how often do you want them do be used? After 2 mins of combat, or 3? Or that's still up to debate? Because combat in this game (talking about rvr) is mostly very short, not considering keeps. And it's especially short if one side is very outnumbered. Now of course it's only natural that the bigger side of equal skill will overpower the weaker one, but what about organized groups? If you set the rate so that you reach the stronger morales in 2 or 3 mins (not considering pumps) those organized groups (warbands) almost certainly won't stand any chance unless every such group is a kiting group waiting to build morales, but in which time another force can come from somewhere else. You played in phalanx warbands so you should understand what I'm talking about. Literally each second counts, and I'm afraid that making morales take so long to build will not only make them virtually unusable (like most m4s already are), but will also make combat a lot more one sided when one realm is decently outnumbered. Of course, that all comes down to what morales will be like, and what certain levels of morale will do.

It's definitely a complicated issue. But personally, I don't have a problem with faster rates. It's about the design of morales, and especially about the unmitigatable damage aspect of offensive morales. I hope you will look into that as well.
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests