To give rdps CC before tanks should have been questionable

[Morf]

Dont forget about Black Orc's when u talking about SM stuff

I agree some minor adjusting would help but it would have to be well thought out because sm's and bo's were not as bad as some ppl have you think, they did lack the group benefits of the other tanks but i cant think of any other problems. You could argue when speced correctly sm's and bo's are the hardest to kill and have the highest damage potential.
Bozzax suggestions are sound and are far better then the planned changes on the pts before war shutdown.
st punt which punt distance cud be based on career mechanics ? which would be a core skill, for example for you sm's, normal balance small punt, improved balance slightly further punt and perfect balance long punt. Move knockdown to 10 mastery points, reduce enchant/bellow ap cost, these 3 changes would help alot without actually buffing sm/bo to much if at all, the next step would be trying to change something for group utility. You could argue with the stat steal enchant/bellow, aoe root, guard and challenge that is your group stuff, all of which other tanks have(ib/bg st buffing cud be compared to enchant/bellow) so what exactly could you give to them to have them not seen as the worse tanks without giving that title to other tanks ? group buffs on a few skills ? making some tactics not be tactics at all and always effect skills ? like bolstering enchantments ? what would you give them to make them not be thought as the worse tank ?

[Morf]

Intimidating Blow (-100 Morale doesn't exactly strike me as very useful)

In a competitive fight that morale drain can be the game changer, you know the enemy tank has m4 and your team plans to burst down a healer, knowing the tank will use there m4 you hit them with intimidating blow, also in close fought duels stopping your opponent from reaching there morale can change the outcome.

[Azarael]

I stand corrected on that one then, thanks

[Luth]

The SM/BO mechanic has also another heavy design error:

While other classes with abilities that are only available in a certain stance (marauder/SW, WH/WE) have built-in automatic actionbar switching, SM/BO need addons for this.

[Morf]

About intimidating blow, its a fine example of sm/bo, its a skill that can be very useful but is stuck behind class mechanics where other skills are and could be more usefull with that stance.

[Bozzax]

Gusting Wind was good to break FF on a squish (sort of poor mans stagger). Just enough for healers to get their stuff together or stop them beating on KD target.

Mechanic was bulky and suffered in lag but not your main problem

My top 5 (BO more or less same list)
1. No ST KB
2. No 10pts KD (wtf 14pts how did they think here)
3. Enchants didn't buff grp and cost shitloads
4. One enchant compared to 3 auras
5. My Resist debuffs didn't stack as they change global code and not trees

All classes had one or two unless PVE tactics or some scruffy abilities that is just how WAR was and it didn't matter much

[Tesq]

Dont forget about Black Orc's when u talking about SM stuff

I agree some minor adjusting would help but it would have to be well thought out because sm's and bo's were not as bad as some ppl have you think, they did lack the group benefits of the other tanks but i cant think of any other problems. You could argue when speced correctly sm's and bo's are the hardest to kill and have the highest damage potential.
Bozzax suggestions are sound and are far better then the planned changes on the pts before war shutdown.
st punt which punt distance cud be based on career mechanics ? which would be a core skill, for example for you sm's, normal balance small punt, improved balance slightly further punt and perfect balance long punt. Move knockdown to 10 mastery points, reduce enchant/bellow ap cost, these 3 changes would help alot without actually buffing sm/bo to much if at all, the next step would be trying to change something for group utility. You could argue with the stat steal enchant/bellow, aoe root, guard and challenge that is your group stuff, all of which other tanks have(ib/bg st buffing cud be compared to enchant/bellow) so what exactly could you give to them to have them not seen as the worse tanks without giving that title to other tanks ? group buffs on a few skills ? making some tactics not be tactics at all and always effect skills ? like bolstering enchantments ? what would you give them to make them not be thought as the worse tank ?

eh but remember if BO is not so behind chosen , fixing his group resistence buff and some balancing well the cc x realm will actualyl make BO a good alternative against chosen choice.
If you give other cc to BO you will make BO Better than chosen/BG so you will have again an alfa tank and others.
This is actually not true for sm that is long behind kobs for different reason, not only group untility but even class things that need fix as aza said worign directly on that class. Giving to the BO a better punt while have a good way to improve resistence will make him again 2.0 chosen , this is actualy why i removed the super punt from chosen. Super punt or BG version are what is able to send away a tank from his guarded. It should not stay on a classes that alredy proved good buff to party.

[Bozzax]

Intimidating Blow (-100 Morale doesn't exactly strike me as very useful)

In a competitive fight that morale drain can be the game changer, you know the enemy tank has m4 and your team plans to burst down a healer, knowing the tank will use there m4 you hit them with intimidating blow, also in close fought duels stopping your opponent from reaching there morale can change the outcome.

+1 Mmmmm morale yummy the group that hit M4 first normally won

[Tesq]

Intimidating Blow (-100 Morale doesn't exactly strike me as very useful)

In a competitive fight that morale drain can be the game changer, you know the enemy tank has m4 and your team plans to burst down a healer, knowing the tank will use there m4 you hit them with intimidating blow, also in close fought duels stopping your opponent from reaching there morale can change the outcome.

+1 Mmmmm morale yummy the group that hit M4 first normally won

this is actually not so relevant, sov set are able to remove moral aoe.....btw so you should gona give a look to destinated to vicotry of chosen: +200 moral point each block .

[Bozzax]

this is actually not so relevant, sov set are able to remove moral aoe.....btw so you should gona give a look to destinated to vicotry of chosen: +200 moral point each block .

I talk of the dark times when NITRO screamed charge in chat and sov was just a dream
(Yes I always slot it actually one of my fav tac. That one alone cements a chosen in the grp)