lower level RvR lakes

[Landuin34]

Im sure this has been posted before but long time player back in the live days but recent returner I have run in to a bit of a wall.

The bolster works to some extent but once you are out of T1 as a low level player you are at a serious advantage.
One of the things I really liked with the game late live was how T2 and T3 worked for open RvR.
T1 was for free account twinks, I tried leveling a few chars in the lakes or scenareos but it simply wasnt possible but that was fine as all you had to do was hit lev 11 and buy a mount and you were set for T2 RvR.

T2 and T3 were a joy, the bolster ment that all players in the lakes or scenareos were reasonably equal in power, anyone you ran across was fun to fight, I fondly recall plenty of huge battles in T2 that stared with me and a friend simply starting to roam a lake looking for troubble.

T1 now has some of that feel but once you advance out of T1 that parts goes away, I know you get a good bolster but RR and gear difference simply makes making a difference in RvR ... it feels like Im simply leeching on the warbands I join, sure I do help but my slot would be alot better used by someone bigger.

Thus my sugestion if possible...

Make T2 and T3 alternate as low level RvR lakes.
Even weeks T2 is low level RvR odd weeks T3 is low level RvR.

You would count as a low level char is nither level or RR is 40+.
thus as soon as your char is lev 40 you must play with the big boys and likewise as soon as your RR hits 40 you have to play with the big boys.

Naturally you should always be able to join in with the big boys if you want but you would not have to.

It feels like there are enough players atm for this to work and even if this is simply an influx of new players that does not continue it would still be an interesting alternate for smaller players and chars.
It definently does not look like it will affect the main battlelines as only a few lakes are active at any given time.

The main problem I see is coding, I do not know how hard it would be to set up but considering it has already been that way I cant belive its impossible.

[Sulorie]

Check out the T2+ bolster thread and adjust your gear. You will do just fine, be it sc or rvr.

[Wolferre]

To be honest I am with you on that one, some of the most fun sessions on Live was in T3 lakes, could be insanely funny but also insanely frustrating, like all ORvR lol

Do miss those T2 zones, they do rotate in but obviously populated with 40+ players too, the Bolster does allow some leeway to compete, but you can tell when your hitting "40 & Deadly" and they just frown and smash you to another dimension.

If the game population was bigger, you would probably see that being re-introduced but as it is limited due to server capacity, difficult to stretch that population. (although i have no idea what the statistics of that is)

[Landuin34]

Sulorie: I did say the bolster does help a bit but be honest, lets say me and two of my buddies at lev 25 RR 25 go into a RvR lake to have some fun and run into a singe lev 40 RR 70+ with good gear, would we stand a chance?
If we would I would be amazed.

I have tried out some more WB RvR but between the lag spikes and not being able to do much of anything against high RR players I simply dont get the enjoyment I think it should.

Wolferre: As for the population not being able to support both I think you are wrong, like you stated you had a lot of fun in T2 and T3 just like me before going to T4 in the live game. The game as it works now with limited lakes open at a time you get a zerg mentality, biggest zerg wins and its always huge battles with multiple full warbands facing off at each other causing lag and a limiting the game.

Siphoning off a portion of the populace to low level RvR would help both groups, lower level players would have a stepping ground to play in before having to face off against the big players, a lev 39 RR 39 is alot weaker than the aforementioned lev 40 RR 70+ wich will make for a more fun game for both groups.
Also T4 RvR will loose some of its players to low level RvR but this will just make each player count for more in the lakes and make the game run smother.

Naturally you should not be forced to play in the low level lakes, if you like playing with the T4 players you should be able to.

Most important, if its not too much work setting it up there is no harm in trying it out, if it turns out the low lev RvR lakes are desolate then I would be proven wrong and they can be disabled.
I very much doubt that will be the case tho as I knew lots of people on live who had their 3-4 T4 chars who would reroll char after char to singly play the T2 and T3 zones deleating the char when it hit 40.

[Sulorie]

Sulorie: I did say the bolster does help a bit but be honest, lets say me and two of my buddies at lev 25 RR 25 go into a RvR lake to have some fun and run into a singe lev 40 RR 70+ with good gear, would we stand a chance?
If we would I would be amazed.

I can tell you, you would have an easy time killing that single rr70 player, if you know your char and the enemy.
When you join warbands, you won't learn anything, because mass rvr requires only numbers and when you stack enough dmg and time your morals, enemies die. It requires little individial performance.
When you actually wear good gear, the bolster will make you very strong. Soloed multiple rr70+ in the lakes or tanked rr80 dd on a sub30 healer.
I made that guide post in that other thread, because over 80% players don't use appropriate gear, when I inspect them in sc e.g. lvl30+ and lvl 7 jewels. Most use sc armor set, when rvr sets would be better...
I see enough in sc on a daily basis to know for a fact, that people tend to blame ranks, when they should look at their lack of experience and gear.

[Landuin34]

I would love to read such a guide, could you please link to it.

[Sulorie]

I would love to read such a guide, could you please link to it.

Roaming in rvr with a small group requires some knowledge to avoid zergs but this progression guide for playing midtier sc can be used for rvr as well, as you use the same items.


http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... 54#p405754

[Landuin34]

Im not ungreatfull, there definately are some good advice I had forgotten since live in there but...
Most of the stuff in your guide is fairly basic, get good gear, use talismans and so on but there is really no guide how to be able to face off against a lev 40 RR 70+ while leveling up... in reality your advice seems to be to use xp reduction scrolls as much as possible as to avoid entering T4 at level 40 and not being ready for it...

The problem here is that on this server you will be hard pressed to be RR20 when you enter the T4 fray at level 16.
The way I recall it you did the low tier city dungeons at lev 20+

As for talismans I can make decent ones already, closing in on talisman making 150 but Im not really capable of making/buying lev 16 talismans in any quantity.

The whole point of my post was that the jump from T1 RvR to T4 RvR is huge, so huge infact that I feel completely useless in RvR, sure I can leech on warbands to level up but thats no fun for me or fair to the rest of the warband.

The one thing i really enjoyed with T2 and T3 live like I have stated was that it was fast paced, fairly balanced and usually not zergs. Massive battles are fun too to an extent but I always likes the evenly matched smaller battles alot more where individual skill actually made a difference.

[EsthelielSunfury]

To me the main problem stems from what you're lacking once you hit 16 rather than what you have. Compared to anyone at 40 you're missing

a) Tactic Slots
b) Mastery points and the skill they provide
c) Morales to buff your party or your own damage
d) Multiple tier bonuses

Problem is less apparent in scenarios because the 4 points above do not scale up so high with Annihilator geared players (which is the most you'll see). The difference between fighting people of somewhat equal gear in Ekrund and Nordland and instantly being exposed to people with Invader and Sovreign is absolutely insane. The jump is ridiculous.

You can fight back with higher numbers and better party composition, but at least EU primetimes, it's mostly about WB vs WB and low-level players are cannon fodder in that.

There doesn't seem to be any indication of any upcoming changes for it though, so do the same thing I did - sit tight, leech from warbands, hide behind 40s and loot vanquishers.

[Landuin34]

EsthelielSunfury: I agree with you and to some extent I will do that... we all have to as this is how the game is currently set up.

The one thing I dont get is why the devs dont realize that even if they would loose a large portion of players from T4 into T2 and T3 this would not make the game fail, if 3000 players play the game and only 1000 of them play in T4 its still 3000 players playing the game.