[rSH/rSW] Mechanics

[cfabr]

So in the world of ranged physical dps, it's pretty hard too be any kind of serious threat with everybody stacking armor like crazy. You cant even damage siege weapons, because they pretty much block everything you throw at them (again because its physical dps). I can easily hit Ballistic skills softcap at lvl 40/40 with talismans, tactics, potions and reknown lvl's, but i'll still hit nothing with no actually weapon skills too go with it. If i put everything into weapon skill (With no potions too go with weapon skills) i can barelly reach 600 WS at lvl40/40, which is still not enough too be any kind of serious threat. I dont have the perfect solution for this (and i dont know if this would actually make a difference) but if there would be some kind of mechanic like squiq armor (or a reknown tactic slot), but for ranged rSH/rSW instead. Basically it would make weapon skills you're primary stat and turn all you're primary stats from BS->WS. It would also (when using this reknown tactic) turn you're masterful aim from BS->WS. Like this, i'd actually have a change of hitting WS softcap and maybe bring a little extra to the battlefields as a ranged physical dps.

Any thoughts on that, would that make a differnce?

[NSKaneda]

You don't need 1050 BS nor 600 WS. I tested both 1050-1100 BS and 800 WS options on rSH and rSW - and found out the hard way that with everyone stacking armour it is not the way.

1000ish BS with 480-550 WS is enough. 950BS with 600 WS is good (with inv+ armour).
Going above 650 WS is overkill worth doing with warlord/sov but only for fun since most player base is still on lower end armour sets.

There is one stat that does make a change, hit me with /w ingame, I'm mostly on my SH these days.

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That being said I'd love a change to what blocka? / acid arrow: removing flat 618 armour reduction value and replacing it with 25% armour reduction - ever since our morale2 had been removed it's that little piece of ooomph rSH/SW miss from their burst rotation. And let's face it: 618 is barely scratching the surface with everyone having their armour pots on.

[diedrake]

Hey man, i didnt get to much exp with SW, but from a squggy point of view and playing the squig here are my thoughts:

Physical rdps isnt a securing kill class but rather more a support roll.

As a squiggy his wide set of tools to hinder the enemy is quite obvious. These tools, i use to help my mdps or tanks or even the magic rdps secire the kills.

As a squiggy, i build weaponskill first to help with as much armor pen as possible along woth other defense type skills with my rr so that if/when i am caught i dont get insta killed and can get away.

The reason for me saying that we are more a support class is due to the armor stacking and the amount of defensive bonuses from gear sets, it is hard to acutally kill targets solo. If i were you, make buddies that play other classes or another physical rdps and learn to focus targets.

I dont know if this helped but this is how i play and learned from playing my squiggy as rdps, because as we both know meatball spec is meta, idk about mdps on sw though.

[cfabr]

I do like the way the rSH plays and they have an interesting and somewhat unique ranged toolkit, but in the world of AoE and armor stacking, they dont really bring that much that any other class doesn't already have. Guess it's just wishfull thinking, but adding some sorts of aoe too some of their more unique abilities would make a difference ... Aoe armor reduction, aoe snare, aoe ini reduction, aoe healdebuff there are many options. All something that would add a little more "and maybe needed" oompf too the rSH/rSW class.

[cfabr]

Maybe another possible solution, would be giving the two classes a natural buff to armor-penetration (could be a reknown tactic slot, but only accesable when not in squid armor) . They are afterall expert marksmen and they should know where to aim their arrows too do most damage and bypass some of the armor. I dont know how armor penetration excatly works, but maybe a bonus like 5/10/15/20% depending on you're given level.

[Ugle]

Remake acid arrow/what blocka to a % debuff like NSkaneda propose (20 - 25%), I would also like to have it castable on the move.
This way you wont have to make bigger changes to getthe wanted result. % armor debuff would ensure it wont become obsolete as armor caps rise.
Castable on the move would increase survivability and make it viable while kiting. Alternativley reduce cast time to one sec.

Also remove dmg reduction component off split arrows/sh equivalent and you have a semi viable wb build.

Two small changes to make SW/SH more viable.

Edit: could even make Centuries of training and pierce defenses apply on all affected targets, not only the your targeted enemy for more viability.

[diedrake]

Having what bloka cast on the move would need to move that skill to run n shoot tree then, and prob same w acid arrow for sw. Idk a % armor reduction might be too strong because those abilities also has a % reduction to block... And dodge i think? Been a min sense i have played my squiggy. I can see the skill change to a % armor reduction if thw skill was just a armor reduction only skill, but also a % might end up being more powerful the the other classes armor reduction skills in some cases.

[Ugle]

Having what bloka cast on the move would need to move that skill to run n shoot tree then, and prob same w acid arrow for sw. Idk a % armor reduction might be too strong because those abilities also has a % reduction to block... And dodge i think? Been a min sense i have played my squiggy. I can see the skill change to a % armor reduction if thw skill was just a armor reduction only skill, but also a % might end up being more powerful the the other classes armor reduction skills in some cases.

I disagree that it would be too strong, in fact it would maybe be a reason to pick SW/SH over other classes with higher flat armor debuff values because of the block reduction. Also I dont see why Aa/Wb would have to be moved to skirm/qs? Because of outdated specline restrictions?

Edit: Also, making it a % armor debuff would increase the relative effectiveness vs highly armored targets, where the problem is today, while keeping its status quo against low armored targets relative to todays performance, where I think our dmg is more or less ok.

Ofc finding the sweetspot in terms of the actual % is important. Be it 15, 20, 25 or 30%, in order to make it viable but not OP, in all specs. (Thinking not to make it OP in assault spec..)

For reference, current unspecced Acid Arrow with a debuff value of 618 equates to the following against different armor values:

Low armor: 2000: 30,9%
Medium low armor: 3000: 20,6%
Medium high armor: 4000: 15,45%
High armor: 5000: 12,36%

Obtaining 3k armor is no problem for low armored classes.

[geezereur]

You don't need 1050 BS nor 600 WS. I tested both 1050-1100 BS and 800 WS options on rSH and rSW - and found out the hard way that with everyone stacking armour it is not the way.

1000ish BS with 480-550 WS is enough. 950BS with 600 WS is good (with inv+ armour).
Going above 650 WS is overkill worth doing with warlord/sov but only for fun since most player base is still on lower end armour sets.

There is one stat that does make a change, hit me with /w ingame, I'm mostly on my SH these days.

-
-

That being said I'd love a change to what blocka? / acid arrow: removing flat 618 armour reduction value and replacing it with 25% armour reduction - ever since our morale2 had been removed it's that little piece of ooomph rSH/SW miss from their burst rotation. And let's face it: 618 is barely scratching the surface with everyone having their armour pots on.

Agree with what blocka/acid arrow should remove a % of armor but also be made into an instacast ability.

[diedrake]

Outdated specline restriction in an outdated mmo... Yes. Plus that abil would benefit from putting skill points into skirm/run n shoot as you wish to use it on the run.

Also, centuries training tactic if that was increased, that would increase for all high elf as that is a racial tactic. I wouldnt mind that on my WL but as we both know that would have serious negative impact on the game.