Corrections to PvP in a PvP game

[Ramlaen]

Just a perspective of someone who started playing on RoR since March. I joined to play with friends who were already here, not because of some streamer I never heard of or because of world events. I played both Order and Destro to high RR/gear on live, I was the Engi class knight and helped test the city mechanic before it was introduced.

I honestly don't consider the gear grind to be that bad. It is actually better in general than live was with addition of the scenario gear sets and quests for dungeon gear after a certain number of completions.

My main concern from what I have seen so far is that the current Fort/City meta is not healthy. It is not 'fun' for people. This isn't live where you are trying to stretch content out for more subscription bucks. If the concern is people will for some reason stop playing characters they have invested themselves in to get high RR/gear, why is gameplay being driven towards only logging in those characters when a city opens?

[wraithghost]

Another better system would be making City Siege constant Weekend Event available, lets say from Friday-Sunday, again with some personal/character/account limit number to get in. In this form each zone lock (including forts as x2/x3 worth of normal zone) would add some personal contribution to character/account which would be used during City Instance rewarding, Also zone locks would affect rank of the Cities (not making it timed thing not dependent from players/faction effort/performance).

MMR for CitySieges would be also good idea, lets say (very simple form), each player have some number of wins, when u make WB you got some average number of wins. IT would make much more interesting fights, spark much more competition, avoid more pug stumping/farms...

Another great idea, more competition, better fights more organised guild groups and people with commitments can do a city sounds great. I am sure it will get shot down instantly

[Fiaryn]

But you couldn't whine in this case .

Other games learnt this lesson and I think Mythic did too but too late.

Let start to compare what is comparable. Size of the team, abilities of the team, finished project vs work in progress (cause, again, no, all this thing is not based on original server sources, not a single line).

I'm gonna be very clear. Things come when they come. When this data will be well anchored in all minds, we will have taken a big step forward. Ofc, it wont happen. Never (however it should be a fairly simple update ...)

Not i/we/the team don't care about players concerns on the contrary, just it seems you are looking for an immediate solution to your instant concern. It doesn't work like this. It can't. For the record, we are all players. But maybe you consider our player experience as inconsistent.

You see the weekly patchnote? Each line is hours of work of someone, where someone can , how someone can. Point is they are working on their own agenda, it is the least they deserve according the fortune they are not paid for. (the same old song you deliberately prefer to ignore, because your instant matter is the only one who should be considered as the priority).

You feel "stressed"? Take a break, or join us roll up your sleeves and work, and see what "stressed" means, when you will read how the hours you wasted to make a baby move are instantly ignored and forgotten, because it is not YOUR CONCERN.

If you cant wait, if your patience and your frustration has reached his short limits, if you missed all the progress and the CRAZY amount of work who have been done all those last years, if you want something engraved and polished there are plenty of other commercial free games, not in beta, not in alpha, not made by a bunch of stupids full of bad faith who haven't "understood" the "essence" of your concerns.

So no; your are not "stressed". You are frustrated. As we all are.

Damn you really showed that strawman.

[meowngolianwarlord]

The OP's suggestion was not even aggressively worded - it was a well written, obviously thought out suggestion on behalf of a player on how the game might be improved. Replying to that with dismissive hostility (on the GM's part) and players posting about how the game is free so if we don't like it we should just go play something else *is* actually a bad faith argument. I haven't seen a single post in this thread belittling the game developers for their hard work, merely some suggestions, some shitposting, and a lot of players arguing with each other over whether or not we're entitled to make suggestions in the Suggestions & Feedback forum.

I've greatly enjoyed my time on the server so far, and really appreciate the chance to play this MMO since I missed it back when it was Live. My two pence came from the position of someone who is feeling a little alienated by City being a very timezone dependent problem and wishing that might change in the future. Telling me that my concerns or frustrations with a game I enjoy aren't valid because the gear differences are minimal (or because I didn't pay for the game) isn't helpful or constructive.

e: Kudos to the people who have actually contributed suggestions to the discussion, even those I disagree with regarding the idea of playing for the sake of it vs playing for rewards.

[Telen]

Another better system would be making City Siege constant Weekend Event available, lets say from Friday-Sunday, again with some personal/character/account limit number to get in. In this form each zone lock (including forts as x2/x3 worth of normal zone) would add some personal contribution to character/account which would be used during City Instance rewarding, Also zone locks would affect rank of the Cities (not making it timed thing not dependent from players/faction effort/performance).

MMR for CitySieges would be also good idea, lets say (very simple form), each player have some number of wins, when u make WB you got some average number of wins. IT would make much more interesting fights, spark much more competition, avoid more pug stumping/farms...

This is a good idea

[Sathum]

I somewhat disagree with the suggestion. Maybe I am in the minority, which I can accept, but I quite like having an end target to play towards (even if that target does seem v. far away as i'm only 40/44).

I think a big part of what makes me play the game is knowing that I need to go through the steps and "earn" my place among the top WBs/guilds who are properly running cities, and get a chance of getting the best gear in the game.

If we start giving out access to the best gear by simply playing the game (assuming you see that the core of the game is RvR) then that doesn't really incentivize players to participate in end-game content i.e. cities. Instead what you might see is people not really coordinating to push zones to get to cities, but rather just guild WBs roaming the lakes farming pugs for tokens. I'm sure that will quickly lead to a thread about how "Destro pre-made guilds are farming in the lakes and we should have pug-only lakes".

Just my perspective and as I say, I accept that I might be a minority.

Well said man! You read my mind!
System where chance to drop end game currency in RvR is a bad idea.
Guy who started this POST, said he was part of team on ORIGINAL server. Oh wait back then BWs or were overpowered ( however we are not talking about balance in this topic, so pardon me, bringing up FAILS of ORIGINAL server ). So please Shut the hell up with proposal of END game currency drop from player kills in RVR. Bad Bad idea.
If you ask why read the posted I quoted. If any of you still think it's good idea, then you are brainless.
I'm with game HEADMASTER. Keep system as it is.
Except one thing need something done with cities or end game currency.
Since this game is not really alt friendly. Able to transfer conquer, vanquisher, oppressor Medallions and
Emblems to your alt would be amazing. It will make more players to play the game and stay. This will help roll alt because people do not want go through the grind STANDING or afk in RvR or SCs.
Make Invader/Royals be obtainable through WEEkly quests. If You hit 50 RR you gain access to obtain vanquisher/oppressor currency. After you reach RR 60 you are able to obtain Invader currency. Finally after RR
70 obtain royals currency from weekly quests. This weekly quest. Let's say just one weekly quest. You have to:
Win/play like 10 scenarios,
Win/play 2 ranked scenarios ( since it does not pop often or people just does not like ranked ),
Defend 1 keep,
Capture one keep,
Play/win one city,
Kill 200 player in scenarios/RvR.
Kill 2 dangeon bosses.
You get the point... They can mix and match what quest will look like but the point is after completing this weekly quests you get like
30-40 vanq/oppressors at RR 50+
5-6 invader at RR 60+
4-5 royals at RR 70+.
Tell me what you guys think!!!

[teiloh]

Ultimately, a big part of the problem is that unlike most of the game's gear progression, fort/city progression is much less streamlined and equitable. Balance aside, you can put in the same effort as another player in a more optimal time zone and be quite far behind in gear. I think the presence of Darkpromise/Tyrant helped mitigate this a bit on live. Bloodlord seems to work well for certain classes/specs but ultimately a lot of people see the PvE track as being very daunting.

[amagawd]

The problem in general is introducing an end game into an rvr game. Mythic **** up. GW2 understood you dont put a defined end game that will be inaccessable to a large chunk of the players that took part in achieveing it. City was what killed WAR because they couldnt think past the wow idea that mmos have to have a defined end game. Stop making the same mistake again.

Why do you think almost every review of this game talks about how much fun the early tiers were (when populated). It wasnt just balance its because you play in the moment not with some far off goal you probably wont be around for.

Mythic had in mind 6 cities not 2.

[Mordd]

I somewhat disagree with the suggestion. Maybe I am in the minority, which I can accept, but I quite like having an end target to play towards (even if that target does seem v. far away as i'm only 40/44).

I think a big part of what makes me play the game is knowing that I need to go through the steps and "earn" my place among the top WBs/guilds who are properly running cities, and get a chance of getting the best gear in the game.

If we start giving out access to the best gear by simply playing the game (assuming you see that the core of the game is RvR) then that doesn't really incentivize players to participate in end-game content i.e. cities. Instead what you might see is people not really coordinating to push zones to get to cities, but rather just guild WBs roaming the lakes farming pugs for tokens. I'm sure that will quickly lead to a thread about how "Destro pre-made guilds are farming in the lakes and we should have pug-only lakes".

Just my perspective and as I say, I accept that I might be a minority.

Well said man! You read my mind!
System where chance to drop end game currency in RvR is a bad idea.
Guy who started this POST, said he was part of team on ORIGINAL server. Oh wait back then BWs or were overpowered ( however we are not talking about balance in this topic, so pardon me, bringing up FAILS of ORIGINAL server ). So please Shut the hell up with proposal of END game currency drop from player kills in RVR. Bad Bad idea.

Stopped reading right there. If you want to voice an opinion or an alternate idea great. Telling anyone to "shut the hell up" because you dont like the idea isnt a constructive part of any discussion and the rest of what ever you said doesnt matter at that point.

[Sathum]

I somewhat disagree with the suggestion. Maybe I am in the minority, which I can accept, but I quite like having an end target to play towards (even if that target does seem v. far away as i'm only 40/44).

I think a big part of what makes me play the game is knowing that I need to go through the steps and "earn" my place among the top WBs/guilds who are properly running cities, and get a chance of getting the best gear in the game.

If we start giving out access to the best gear by simply playing the game (assuming you see that the core of the game is RvR) then that doesn't really incentivize players to participate in end-game content i.e. cities. Instead what you might see is people not really coordinating to push zones to get to cities, but rather just guild WBs roaming the lakes farming pugs for tokens. I'm sure that will quickly lead to a thread about how "Destro pre-made guilds are farming in the lakes and we should have pug-only lakes".

Just my perspective and as I say, I accept that I might be a minority.

Well said man! You read my mind!
System where chance to drop end game currency in RvR is a bad idea.
Guy who started this POST, said he was part of team on ORIGINAL server. Oh wait back then BWs or were overpowered ( however we are not talking about balance in this topic, so pardon me, bringing up FAILS of ORIGINAL server ). So please Shut the hell up with proposal of END game currency drop from player kills in RVR. Bad Bad idea.

Stopped reading right there. If you want to voice an opinion or an alternate idea great. Telling anyone to "shut the hell up" because you dont like the idea isnt a constructive part of any discussion and the rest of what ever you said doesnt matter at that point.

I really don't care what you think...
If it's dumb idea even Headmaster isn't fun of it... Means it's shity idea....I played original/live server...so when former shity developer of live server suggest something... NOT a good idea.
Being honest here.