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[Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

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Grock
Posts: 597

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#91 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:22 pm

Atum wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:33 pm
hey yes i meant a rough rota. currently im cr24 doing scs, i have specific questions by now:

1) is it worth to use pulverizing strike for 3x toughness debuff (and keep debuff up), although its in the giantslayer line? (in general / single target)

2) same with relentless strike for dot; assuming its our ST spamm skill

3) what about spine crusher

4) fierceness shout- is it worth or too risky losing initiative in general? (i mean if we arent focused then ofc we can use i guess)

5) enrage in general- i guess we will do more dps having berserk! enrage level and spamming our ID/onslaught/Flurry (or vice versa for ST dmg). therefor, enrage-exhausting skills like wild swing for aoe and precarious assault for st we only use if we get focused right?
Pulverizing is the only singletarget anytimer that you can use from the front, so yea just use in whenever nothing else is availalbe.
Debuff is okay it if there's no other debuff sources (i.e. a Knight's aura)

Relentless strike can be used every other gcd for maximum uptime, generally the dps boost is barely noticeable but its something
Spine Crusher is the highest damage spammable in the kit, especially since you go Trollslayer but not Giantslayer

Fierceness is extra weapon skil, can be alright against high armor targets, but usually at lower rank/gear the initiative debuff is too deadly to use it, try it out in target dummies and look how much Incoming Crit you get from Intiative when its up

Enrage yes, generally you only exhaust defensively or for utility(Rampage, Enervating Blow, No Escape)
However in big AoE situations when you don't have Accuracy tactic and Retribution is on CD it could be worth spamming Wild Swing on CD since it hits 24 targets and its damage is pretty high, plus you keep your defence up as a bonus
Orkni
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Helwer
Posts: 2

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#92 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:20 am

Thanks for the discussion and guide. How exactly about auto attack haste/speed? I noticed there are several armor pieces that give additional auto attack haste/speed, tactics and even jewelry in T4 ToK-sets. Is there any limit down or can i combine all tactics and equipment to get it as low as possible and survivable? From earlier times i remember it was good to get low as in the Tyrants set it was 4-piece reward, in new Redeye it is 5 pieces reward.
For example tactics give 50% Auto attack Speed, conqueror torc 10 Auto attack haste, The Great Oathstones 15 Auto attack haste, Onslaught Armbraces (btw where is this set from?) also 10 Auto attack haste. I am not able to farm or buy this stuff right now, but would be curious if someone ever tried or can tell me about how it works and stacks or not.
Thank you for any explain or answer, at least i will try myself as soon as it is possible.

Elio
Posts: 51

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#93 » Thu May 28, 2020 3:26 pm

Hi Hewler, AA speed is a build I've seen floated around by some solid Slayers. I haven't tried it myself yet though, so this'll be informed speculation on my part.

That said... an AA haste build won't fill the cookie cutter niche that Jagged/Accuracy does for an AoE slayer, but as a champ buster in city stage 3 or in ranked 6v6 it'd be quite strong. Especially if you pick up the weapon reward from C/T with a super fast AA speed I think you can get your MH down to like 0.8 or 0.7.

If he's up for talking about it Rolgrom from Thundercats was testing it out a month or two ago.

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 553

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#94 » Thu May 28, 2020 8:44 pm

While we're back on updating this post. I have recently gotten full Invader but I feel like my damage is crap in standard AoE build. My weaponskill is down at 560 with dual Hammers of Reverance (rr61 scen 1handers).

Any advice? I dropped Beastlord for bringing the Sov Grudgecoat. W/O mix and matched sets I don't see how I can bring enough strength to keep Beastlord 3 piece bonus.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/74) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/35) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/77) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

eigner93
Posts: 9

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#95 » Sat May 30, 2020 6:19 pm

CountTalabecland wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:44 pm
While we're back on updating this post. I have recently gotten full Invader but I feel like my damage is crap in standard AoE build. My weaponskill is down at 560 with dual Hammers of Reverance (rr61 scen 1handers).

Any advice? I dropped Beastlord for bringing the Sov Grudgecoat. W/O mix and matched sets I don't see how I can bring enough strength to keep Beastlord 3 piece bonus.
You need 800-900 ws and str cap with full invader and you will melt everything, even tanks. trust me

Averok
Posts: 12

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#96 » Sun May 31, 2020 11:09 am

eigner93 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:19 pm
CountTalabecland wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:44 pm
While we're back on updating this post. I have recently gotten full Invader but I feel like my damage is crap in standard AoE build. My weaponskill is down at 560 with dual Hammers of Reverance (rr61 scen 1handers).

Any advice? I dropped Beastlord for bringing the Sov Grudgecoat. W/O mix and matched sets I don't see how I can bring enough strength to keep Beastlord 3 piece bonus.
You need 800-900 ws and str cap with full invader and you will melt everything, even tanks. trust me
I've 1060 str wih potions , 743 ws , 90 melee power and 12% crit chance with total 53.1 % armor penetration and trust me .. i deal 250 dmg on a tank .. the only things i could kill are witch elves, squigg harders and sometimes choppas nothing else ...
On chosen or black orcs i deal low dmg ... 1v1 i can't kill shamans or zealot , they have snare, pull me away and when i come closer also with spine crusher i do ridicolous dmg...

I don't undestand what is wrong but seems WL have a lot of dps than a slayer in single target and this is not acceptable because we suffer the enrage debuff so to deal significant dmg we need to stay always red and our survivability depends on healers and tanks.

I'm 76RR not 40/40 .. i have 2 hammers of reverence , 3 pieces of BL , 5 pieces of invader , 2 pieces of warlord .. i'm not weared with paper...

Also with full set invader dps not change .. i've used it full from 70 to 75 and dps is low again with most destro classes.

That's why when i'll reach rr80 probably i'll put my Slayer in the cellar and problably reroll a WL...

Trust me , Slayer is only for premade with good tanks and healers, for the rest is a paper chain diing class..

eigner93
Posts: 9

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#97 » Sun May 31, 2020 12:55 pm

Averok wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 11:09 am
eigner93 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:19 pm
CountTalabecland wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:44 pm
While we're back on updating this post. I have recently gotten full Invader but I feel like my damage is crap in standard AoE build. My weaponskill is down at 560 with dual Hammers of Reverance (rr61 scen 1handers).

Any advice? I dropped Beastlord for bringing the Sov Grudgecoat. W/O mix and matched sets I don't see how I can bring enough strength to keep Beastlord 3 piece bonus.
You need 800-900 ws and str cap with full invader and you will melt everything, even tanks. trust me
I've 1060 str wih potions , 743 ws , 90 melee power and 12% crit chance with total 53.1 % armor penetration and trust me .. i deal 250 dmg on a tank .. the only things i could kill are witch elves, squigg harders and sometimes choppas nothing else ...
On chosen or black orcs i deal low dmg ... 1v1 i can't kill shamans or zealot , they have snare, pull me away and when i come closer also with spine crusher i do ridicolous dmg...

I don't undestand what is wrong but seems WL have a lot of dps than a slayer in single target and this is not acceptable because we suffer the enrage debuff so to deal significant dmg we need to stay always red and our survivability depends on healers and tanks.

I'm 76RR not 40/40 .. i have 2 hammers of reverence , 3 pieces of BL , 5 pieces of invader , 2 pieces of warlord .. i'm not weared with paper...

Also with full set invader dps not change .. i've used it full from 70 to 75 and dps is low again with most destro classes.

That's why when i'll reach rr80 probably i'll put my Slayer in the cellar and problably reroll a WL...

Trust me , Slayer is only for premade with good tanks and healers, for the rest is a paper chain diing class..
Of course you not gonna kill tanks with 50 armor pen... they have atleast 4,5k armor and 500 toughness. Max out ws, get full invad 7/7 because thats only 10-20% armor pen (depends if you are furious or beserk) you can max out ws around 900 with ws/ reduced crit chance pot that is almost 65% armor pen plus the invader bonus and you should deal 400-600 noncrits to tanks and 800-1000 to everything else.
Also dont forget to use Fierceness for an extra 100 ws.

Averok
Posts: 12

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#98 » Sun May 31, 2020 1:57 pm

eigner93 wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 12:55 pm
Averok wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 11:09 am
eigner93 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:19 pm


You need 800-900 ws and str cap with full invader and you will melt everything, even tanks. trust me
I've 1060 str wih potions , 743 ws , 90 melee power and 12% crit chance with total 53.1 % armor penetration and trust me .. i deal 250 dmg on a tank .. the only things i could kill are witch elves, squigg harders and sometimes choppas nothing else ...
On chosen or black orcs i deal low dmg ... 1v1 i can't kill shamans or zealot , they have snare, pull me away and when i come closer also with spine crusher i do ridicolous dmg...

I don't undestand what is wrong but seems WL have a lot of dps than a slayer in single target and this is not acceptable because we suffer the enrage debuff so to deal significant dmg we need to stay always red and our survivability depends on healers and tanks.

I'm 76RR not 40/40 .. i have 2 hammers of reverence , 3 pieces of BL , 5 pieces of invader , 2 pieces of warlord .. i'm not weared with paper...

Also with full set invader dps not change .. i've used it full from 70 to 75 and dps is low again with most destro classes.

That's why when i'll reach rr80 probably i'll put my Slayer in the cellar and problably reroll a WL...

Trust me , Slayer is only for premade with good tanks and healers, for the rest is a paper chain diing class..
Of course you not gonna kill tanks with 50 armor pen... they have atleast 4,5k armor and 500 toughness. Max out ws, get full invad 7/7 because thats only 10-20% armor pen (depends if you are furious or beserk) you can max out ws around 900 with ws/ reduced crit chance pot that is almost 65% armor pen plus the invader bonus and you should deal 400-600 noncrits to tanks and 800-1000 to everything else.
Also dont forget to use Fierceness for an extra 100 ws.
900 ws is not possible with full invader set on , because to reach cap in str you need to put 2 talis on + str.
Maybe with other weapons than mace of reverence you maybe could reach around 800 using blade master 5.
With fierceness probably hit 900 for 10 seconds ..

What i'km going to use as fnal equipment will be 4 pieces of Sov Gurd + 3 pieces of Warlord + 3 pieces BL + 2 pieces Genesis and + 2 hammer of reverence.
This with blade master 5 + 6/8 pieces with +23 ws talis will give me 821 WS and 1040 str w/o pots and +10% amor pen
This setup will cost like 300+ Royal Crest and however you could reach 880 ws only with pots that give + 60 for 30 mints...

An alternative is use 8/8 +23 ws talis to have max ws boost with + 184 and reach 870 ws w/o pots and have around 990 str to use than a +80 pots to reach the cap and +60 ws pot to reach 910.

Not easy way build a slayer that gives the right dps , is not easy like most ppl write on forum...

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 553

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#99 » Sun May 31, 2020 6:40 pm

Spoiler:
eigner93 wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 12:55 pm
Averok wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 11:09 am
eigner93 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:19 pm


You need 800-900 ws and str cap with full invader and you will melt everything, even tanks. trust me
I've 1060 str wih potions , 743 ws , 90 melee power and 12% crit chance with total 53.1 % armor penetration and trust me .. i deal 250 dmg on a tank .. the only things i could kill are witch elves, squigg harders and sometimes choppas nothing else ...
On chosen or black orcs i deal low dmg ... 1v1 i can't kill shamans or zealot , they have snare, pull me away and when i come closer also with spine crusher i do ridicolous dmg...

I don't undestand what is wrong but seems WL have a lot of dps than a slayer in single target and this is not acceptable because we suffer the enrage debuff so to deal significant dmg we need to stay always red and our survivability depends on healers and tanks.

I'm 76RR not 40/40 .. i have 2 hammers of reverence , 3 pieces of BL , 5 pieces of invader , 2 pieces of warlord .. i'm not weared with paper...

Also with full set invader dps not change .. i've used it full from 70 to 75 and dps is low again with most destro classes.

That's why when i'll reach rr80 probably i'll put my Slayer in the cellar and problably reroll a WL...

Trust me , Slayer is only for premade with good tanks and healers, for the rest is a paper chain diing class..
Of course you not gonna kill tanks with 50 armor pen... they have atleast 4,5k armor and 500 toughness. Max out ws, get full invad 7/7 because thats only 10-20% armor pen (depends if you are furious or beserk) you can max out ws around 900 with ws/ reduced crit chance pot that is almost 65% armor pen plus the invader bonus and you should deal 400-600 noncrits to tanks and 800-1000 to everything else.
Also dont forget to use Fierceness for an extra 100 ws.
I still dont see how it would be possible to be in full Invader, soft cap str, and even clear 700 WS with Blademaster x5. Are you factoring Fierceness into that 700? 3 Piece BL, Full Invader, and 2 titans hammers puts you at around 650 WS with using plus 22 talis to get to +970 Str before a Pot.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/74) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/35) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/77) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

Elio
Posts: 51

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#100 » Sun May 31, 2020 7:09 pm

If we're talking BiS endgame gear that looks to exclusively push RAW STATS I can chime in with my current gear setup. Before I go in too deep the main takeaway gearing wise is that there's no longer a single cookie cutter set that'll do everything. Desolation from full Sovereign is a great way to provide warband utility and help counter moral bombs. Slayers can think a little more about what role they'll be filling in a warband and gear accordingly.

That said... for full mongo AoE DPS with raw stats I'm running the following.

Renown
5 Blade Master (WS), 3 Opportunist (Crit), 2 Futile Strikes (-Crit), 1 Vigor (Wounds)

Tactics
Brute Force, Wild Gambit, Accuracy, Jagged Edge

Weapons
Titan's Hammer of Rev
Bloodlord Axe

Armor
Warlord - Gloves, Belt, Ring
Sovereign - Helm, Shoulders, Back, Chest, Boots
Accessories - Warlord Ring, Genesis Aspect, Genesis Remnant... and either Batter Ring of the Fist (Praag RvR influence reward), Rough Gunbad Amber, or Sentinel Ring

Quick note, I'd be using the sentinel ring if I had it for 4% more crit, 54 more melee power, or 46 (I think) more WS, so my current stats are not as pushed as they will be in a few weeks.

With an Armor Pot and +60 Str/+50 Melee Power liniment my current stats are...

Raw Stats
Image

Melee - Remember the 10% from sov is NOT included on paperdoll (as verified in getstats), so it's 67.3% armor penetration.
Image

Defensive
Image

Getstats call
Image

Regarding Invader... I've tried full Invader and I feel MUCH squishier than this mixed set and do noticeably less damage.

There's definitely a breakpoint between more WS, more raw armor pen, more melee power, and more crit for slayer. I haven't done all the testing/math for the new gear, and my current setup is probably not completely BiS. It's nice to have so much armor variety for slayers; all of which feel +/- 10% total damage output. This also means that while gearing up you can more readily get your slayer into doing competitive damage; I've seen the conq/vanq mixed set completely outpace full Sovereign.

This is really just a preview of the guide I'm working on, but I hope this at least helps show what pushing for just raw stats looks like.

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