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[Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

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Grock
Posts: 596

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#101 » Sun May 31, 2020 8:02 pm

Helwer wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:20 am
How exactly about auto attack haste/speed?
As far as i know there are no limits anymore.

The formula was changed from the crazy live one

The amount of Haste you have directly translates into how many extra attacks and dps you AA will have
The standard diminishing returns applies as the more of it you have the less relative benefit you get from further investment (like with all other offensive stats)

CountTalabecland wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:44 pm
While we're back on updating this post. I have recently gotten full Invader but I feel like my damage is crap in standard AoE build. My weaponskill is down at 560 with dual Hammers of Reverance (rr61 scen 1handers).

Any advice? I dropped Beastlord for bringing the Sov Grudgecoat. W/O mix and matched sets I don't see how I can bring enough strength to keep Beastlord 3 piece bonus.
I dont think using Sov cloak without a set bonus is worth it. Beastlord cloak has decent stats + a talisman slot, plus a set bonus for 55 stats

To reach strength sweet spot with Invader you'll need strength talismans, and then you use 3p Beastlord to make up for loss of weaponskill, hanging at 560 is enough with Invader imo - even though going higher on WS will make the last bonus more potent you don't really need that much penetration when playing in premade.

eigner93 wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:19 pm
You need 800-900 ws and str cap with full invader and you will melt everything, even tanks. trust me
Good luck reaching low inc crit and good wounds when you invest that much into WS with a full set build
You only need that much when solo roaming because otherwise you can't fight tanks or squigs, but for premade play thats a wild overkill and will gimp you both in defences and raw damage output

Also im pretty sure armorpen is hard capped at 75%
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Grock
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Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#102 » Sun May 31, 2020 8:15 pm

Elio wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 7:09 pm
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Looks very sexy!
I was planning to go 5p Sov 3p Warlord as well (with my city attendance its gonna take a year lol), but instead of WS renown i'd invest into parry/wounds/FS/crit (not sure which one)

I feel like having that much armorpen is an overkill, you aren't gonna melt properly built tanks anyway. You aren't gonna cut through things like toughness or hardy concession.
In 6v6 environemnt you sometimes would switch to tanks, but there you are likely to have double armor debufs taking care of their armor, so natural armorpen is once again a bit redundant.

IMO The only place where maxed out WS is necessary is solo roaming because otherwise tanks and squigs have way too big advantage.
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Averok
Posts: 12

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#103 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:12 am

Grock wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 8:15 pm
Elio wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 7:09 pm
Raw Stats
Image
Looks very sexy!
I was planning to go 5p Sov 3p Warlord as well (with my city attendance its gonna take a year lol), but instead of WS renown i'd invest into parry/wounds/FS/crit (not sure which one)

I feel like having that much armorpen is an overkill, you aren't gonna melt properly built tanks anyway. You aren't gonna cut through things like toughness or hardy concession.
In 6v6 environemnt you sometimes would switch to tanks, but there you are likely to have double armor debufs taking care of their armor, so natural armorpen is once again a bit redundant.

IMO The only place where maxed out WS is necessary is solo roaming because otherwise tanks and squigs have way too big advantage.
Remember also that a Slayer running solo and fight chosen / orcs or squigg need lot of luck.
With sov + BL + warlord mashup we'll have not more than 100 thoughness using wild gambit.
With thoug so low you Need 10k wounds to survive, Need risposte and Need reflex 4 ...
So to reach 9-10k wounds Will drop your ws to 600~
Running 820 ws w/o pots and 8k wounds Is more bslanced but in solo you Will die most of the time.

My opinion Is : A Slayer Is a grp meant dps , never make duels 1v1 because Will die most of the times or maybe you kill with luck ungeared low RR ppl.
In a Grp , build a Slayer Aoe spec DW
Don't care too much on have parry , because you must have guard.
Spend RR points on Blade master 5 , futiles 3, opportunist 2 and rest reflex and wounds low.
Use wild gambit , brute force , accuracy and Power Trough.
Use the m4 of aoe tree ( Doom Seeker) and then push what you want with m4 + shatter limbs + ( wild swing / flurry on rotation) and rampage or firencess up.
That's Will be the max dps can reach.
But as i told this Is a grp meant build with good tanks and healers.

That's Is what i'll run as final Gear :
BL ( mantle , ring , book)
Warlord ( hands, feet , ring)
Genesis ( aspect , remnant)
Sov Gurdfury the rest
2x Hammer or Reverence
6 talis Ws +23 , 2 talis Str
RR: Blade master 5 , Futiles 3 , Op 2 , rest 1 pt on parry or ws or might

Those are final stats :

1040 str ( 994 base with wg+ bf tattics) + 46 from talis )
102 though
821 WS ( 563 base + 138 talis + 120 Blade master)
232 init
817 wounds
447 Corporeal
460 Elemental
453 Spiritual
70 melee Power
12 AP per sec
2% parry + the amount given by WS and RR
6% crit chanche + 10 % of opportunist RR
3% Dodge
1% disrupt
10% auto Attack
10% armor penetration + the AP from WS
0% chance to be crit from intit and futiles strikes

No Need ste pots , and with ws pots could reach 881 WS.
But as i told this Is a grp aoe dps spec.
Run solo like this you can't kill noone.

To run solo pvp with a dps class, better have a WL..

Foltestik
Posts: 571

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#104 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:17 am

you have to low chance to crit

Averok
Posts: 12

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#105 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:50 am

Foltestik wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:17 am
you have to low chance to crit

The blanket is short , i prefer take +97 ws bonus using warlord ring, instead a 7% more crit chance using the sov ring.

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Grock
Posts: 596

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#106 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:17 am

Averok wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:12 am
Run solo like this you can't kill noone.

To run solo pvp with a dps class, better have a WL..
sounds like a player issue to me :lol:

it ain't easy especially vs sov WEs and kiters, but its far from "kill noone"
Orkni
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Averok
Posts: 12

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#107 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:46 am

Grock wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:17 am
Averok wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:12 am
Run solo like this you can't kill noone.

To run solo pvp with a dps class, better have a WL..
sounds like a player issue to me :lol:

it ain't easy especially vs sov WEs and kiters, but its far from "kill noone"
If you want to kill something you need to go Trollslayer spec with Max Reflex and Risposte tattic and yeah you gonna be a good in 1v1 but became useless for WB , City or where a grp have a sense.
I'm talking about an Aoe Slayer dps concept , and with the aoe spec , if you run alone you will kill noone...

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Grock
Posts: 596

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#108 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:50 pm

Well thats why we have respec option, and mastery respec is even free of charge and takes less than a minute via porting to Sigmar's Hammer.

Obviously if you're going into 1v1 with a group focused spec you gonna have a hard time, regardless of your class

The point is though you don't need to change much in that build you posted in order to 1v1/solo.
The only problems is lack of Reflexes.
And your strength is way too high, you really don't need those two extra STR talis because its going to be covered by party or potion/liniment
Switch those two talis to wounds and you'll have 9k hp with WP/Liniment while being softcapped on STR.

I wouldn't recommend skipping on Reflexes in group settng, it gives a lot of damage mitigation, protects from CC and punts, and synergizes very well with Oathbound from Ironbreaker since parry stacking has increasing returns.
Orkni
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CountTalabecland
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Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#109 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:30 pm

Isn't running Reflexes with sub-600 WS kind of pointless due to parry being based on enemy str v. your WS? I really dont understand how the parry bonus works but I seem to parry much more from having WS above 600 than under even with same amount of reflexes. Could be bias but it seems the stat point relative to Str softcap matters a lot.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/74) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/35) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/77) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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Grock
Posts: 596

Re: [Slayer] Guide - How to take lickin' and keep on skippin'

Post#110 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:29 pm

CountTalabecland wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:30 pm
Isn't running Reflexes with sub-600 WS kind of pointless due to parry being based on enemy str v. your WS? I really dont understand how the parry bonus works but I seem to parry much more from having WS above 600 than under even with same amount of reflexes. Could be bias but it seems the stat point relative to Str softcap matters a lot.
Enemy stregnth only matters for the extra bonus you get from WeaponSkill, it doesn't affect your flat parry from gear/renown/tactics/dualwield (flat bonus can only be bypassed by flat parry strikethrough from gear and tactics)

Formula should be (YourWS / EnemySTR) * 7.5, which means if you have same WS as enemy strength you get +7.5% parry against them, if you have twice less WS than they have strength (500 ws vs 1000 str dmg dealer) its gonna be +3.75%, if you have twice more WS than they have STR (like 600 WS vs 300 strength tank) you gonna have +15% parry
The bonus is hard capped at +25% from what i heard, so thats having 3 times more WS than enemy Str

Of course having Reflexes on top of high WS will give you huge parry chance against low strength enemies, but even without WS bonus having Reflexes is still decent mitigation when you have dual wield and 1-2 gear bonuses, and becomes much more potent with Oathbound buff - you'll get above 50% flat bonus, which is huge
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