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<Feedback> Tier One

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Poll: Which of the following would you like to see for Tier One?

No change at all.
42
44%
Instructor's Boon will have a new minimum rank of 5. (Allows players to stay in Tier 1 longer, and build Renown Rank)
9
9%
Players will stop leveling at CR 15 until they complete a quest to speak to an NPC). (Allows players to stay in Tier 1 indefinitely, and guarantee Renown Rank 30)
44
46%
Total votes: 95

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VolkfangRock
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<Feedback> Tier One

Post#1 » Tue May 26, 2020 9:37 pm

I want to make one thing clear, I believe the devs made the appropriate choice, considering the player base, to merge Tier 2 and 3. The downside to this merge, is in the brief experience in Tier One, which does not set up new players to compete in the Merged Tier. This experience is reminiscent of Mythic WAR 1.4.1 and beyond. Nobody, then, wanted to leave Tier 3, and enter Tier 4, as the numerous new sets of gear available to rr 100 players, made even invader gear weak.

I've thought of a couple low-impact solutions to this:
1. Reduce the required rank to purchase Instructor's boons to level 5.
PRO: Players stay in Tier One long enough to raise their RR closer to 30, granting them improved renown advancement.
PRO: They'd be able to enjoy the otherwise vacant Tier One PvE, such as PQs, without worrying about leveling out of the Tier.
PRO: The higher RR achieved by this would give them a bigger lead in the Merged Tier, which sets them up for greater success in T4.
CON: Greater presence of RR 20+ players in the starting Tier.
2. Upon reaching CR15, the player receives a quest in their mailbox, from the ruler of their faction, who orders them to speak with the quest giver of Sacallem/Sewers, otherwise keeping the player at CR15 until they finish the quest.
PROS: same as option 1, except players can guarantee reaching RR 30
CON: players can create permanent RR 30 characters

If you believe the presence of level 15 RR 20+ palyers will scare off starting players, then you'd be correct. However, it will only scare off the players who were going to leave RoR anyway! The type of players who form the long-lasting community of this private server are not meek pushovers. They are competitive players, with the curiosity to ask the veterans how they can improve. If adversity in the Tier one lakes weeds out the weak, so be it. They would have never survived the middle tier anyway.

Lastly, I'd like the devs to introduce a playable skaven class which is immune to morale damage. Just kiddin' (**** you mythic)

Please participate in this Strawpoll to create transparency for the devs
https://www.strawpoll.me/20175970

TLDR; Tier One is too brief an experience for new players.
Merged Middle Tier proves intimidating to anyone level 16, facing opponents equipped with Rank 35 sets.
I propose to expand the experience of Tier One by one of two ways:
1. Lower the cr requirement for Instructor's Boons to lvl 5.
2. Introduce quest that allows players to reach level 16 and access the middle tier.

EDIT: I added a forum poll, because I realized non-RoR players could use strawpoll, and that may scew validity.

Thanks to all the devs working on the RoR project,
If I could legally pay you a subscription fee, I totally would, ya'll deserve every penny.

Cheers,

VF Rock
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Merlyn
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Re: <Feedback> Tier One

Post#2 » Sun May 31, 2020 9:59 pm

This is a fantastic idea! Those who just want to hit 40 as fast as they can are still able to enjoy the game that way, and those of us who really enjoy T1 could relish that phase of ORvR play much longer (or even indefinitely!) on one character.

I totally agree that the current gear/skill gap between a fresh 16 and the average fort wb is large enough to probably dissuade a lot of newcomers. My most major concern is the effect of introducing a similar gear gap into the first phase of play. I worry that even more newcomers would be turned off of RvR by those of us, myself included, who would twink as many 15s as we could. Even so, I don't think many newcomers would flat out give up. I spend a lot of time in T1, and anecdotally it seems like most new people I talk to try this out with more experienced friends or family. As sort of a pilot study we could have a short survey, similar to the recent ranked scenarios poll, but intended to gauge the ORvR experience of players as they exit T1, so perhaps only distributed to characters upon hitting 16. This widely-distributed poll could also be used to field your question to a much broader audience than just those who browse the suggestions forum. I have no idea how much work it would take to actually implement this, so I feel a bit rude for suggesting it lol.

I would be EXTREMELY interested to hear from those who responded "No change at all" to your poll about the reasons for their choice. I only see a net positive from giving players the option to stay in T1 longer, but I definitely hold a preferential bias for T1 play. I just hope it wouldn't be too difficult to implement. Really need to start learning how to implement changes like this myself...

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Vayra
Posts: 568

Re: <Feedback> Tier One

Post#3 » Sun May 31, 2020 10:05 pm

The only change I want is for tier 1 to extend through old tier 2, opening both tiers to tier 1 players. That ensures that all classes get their key mechanics online before going into t2+. Currently healers have to wait until level 20 before they can be useful in t2+ due to group heal only becoming available then. Alternatively, grant group heals at level 16 instead of 20.
Vayra - Sorc
Forkrul - DoK
Kalyth - BG

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HoddsKelevra
Posts: 14

Re: <Feedback> Tier One

Post#4 » Sun May 31, 2020 10:14 pm

While i personally dont think doing "just" B or C are great ideas, I DID NOT vote for A because I think something needs to change,

JoeMamAz
Posts: 18

Re: <Feedback> Tier One

Post#5 » Sun May 31, 2020 10:57 pm

Including tier 2 and tier1 together would be a great change, or just make tier 2 by itself and tier 1 by itself and tier3-4 together

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VolkfangRock
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Re: <Feedback> Tier One

Post#6 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:49 pm

Merlyn wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:59 pm
As sort of a pilot study we could have a short survey, similar to the recent ranked scenarios poll, but intended to gauge the ORvR experience of players as they exit T1, so perhaps only distributed to characters upon hitting 16. This widely-distributed poll could also be used to field your question to a much broader audience than just those who browse the suggestions forum.
Thanks for your eloquent response Meryln! It didn't occur to me that an in-game poll would be an option, but I think it a great idea. How do most suggestions/feedback warrant attention from the devs?

Side note: I just recently discovered that Grimnir, from Grimnir's Grudge (https://grimnir.me/) is the Head Game Master, known as Wargrimnir! I'm excited to hear from him, because much of what I had to say was inspired by him, as I used to read his blogs on the regular when the game was live.
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Drys
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Re: <Feedback> Tier One

Post#7 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:04 am

Vayra wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 10:05 pm
The only change I want is for tier 1 to extend through old tier 2, opening both tiers to tier 1 players. That ensures that all classes get their key mechanics online before going into t2+. Currently healers have to wait until level 20 before they can be useful in t2+ due to group heal only becoming available then. Alternatively, grant group heals at level 16 instead of 20.
I strongly second this and suggest having T2 keeps reserved for 16-30. I suggest this because new players need a "safe" space to learn siege mechanics (Rams, oils, cannons, Lord, etc.) This will help them learn keeps, slow the curve for new folks, and hopefully retain new players by not having hate in /1 and random reporting just b/c some new player doesn't know better.

T3-T4 keeps can be for 16-40+ so that experienced players, folks in guilds, etc. can still play together in the campaign.

We have a "lite" version of this with T2 zones opening during cities, but I suggest we make this a permanent fixture.
Spoiler:
Drystav - Magus 40/6X
Drysthex - Zealot 40/4X
Drystzyk - Chosen 40/5X
Drystax - Mara 24/2X

Drystal - WE 40/5X
Drystmar - DOK 40/4X
Drystelle - Sorc 40/7X
Drysthorn - BG 40/6X

Drystham - Shaman 40/4X
Drystig - SH 40/5X
Drystlak - BOrc 40/4X

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VolkfangRock
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Re: <Feedback> Tier One

Post#8 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:04 am

HoddsKelevra wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 10:14 pm
While i personally dont think doing "just" B or C are great ideas, I DID NOT vote for A because I think something needs to change,
Hey Hodds, would you mind expanding on your comments? I'd genuinely like to know what your criticisms are regarding the options, and if you think something ought to change in Tier 1, what would you suggest?

Keep in mind, that my suggested options were intended to be "low impact" options, meaning not time-consuming for the devs to work on. The idea of bringing instructor's boons into Tier 1 is entirely my idea and I believe to be the easiest to accomplish.

However, I would like to point out that the notion of a quest is not my idea entirely, but inspired by Grimnir, from Grimnir's Grudge. On the topic of power escalation, he comments, "Also, I would go so far as making R40 a quest/activation instead of a natural level gained by XP. Upon reaching R39 a piece of mail summoning you to the king to send you to the dangerous battlefields of T4 and otherwise locking you at R39 until you finish it." (Grimnir, Syrioq, Rekoom, Hatch, &amp; Lyram, 2013)

Granted, here Grimnir's is critiquing the massive power escalation post 1.4.1 upon entering T4, which is comparable to the power escalation in RoR upon entering the Merged Tier. By no means am I suggesting what Grimnir is suggesting verbatim. Only that his approach be applied to Tier 1.

Citations:
Grimnir, Syrioq, Rekoom, Hatch, &amp; Lyram. (2013, January 05). Power Escalation. Retrieved June 03, 2020, from https://grimnir.me/2011/01/19/1938-power-escalation/
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VolkfangRock
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Re: <Feedback> Tier One

Post#9 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:16 am

Vayra wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 10:05 pm
The only change I want is for tier 1 to extend through old tier 2, opening both tiers to tier 1 players. That ensures that all classes get their key mechanics online before going into t2+. Currently healers have to wait until level 20 before they can be useful in t2+ due to group heal only becoming available then. Alternatively, grant group heals at level 16 instead of 20.
I had this same sentiment as you Vayra! After serious deliberation, I came to the conclusion that the devs must have also had this thought as an option. My only conclusion as to why they didn't merge Tier 1 and 2 together, as opposed to the current merged tiers, is because of the deterrent factor of level 29 geared players appearing in Tier 1 RvR lakes. After all, didn't they stop debolstering because it was still unfair towards new players? I can only imagine being level 1 entering the RvR lake and encountering a level 29 geared player would be an even greater power escalation than a level 16 encountering a level 39 player. Though I could very well be wrong on the math here when accounting for bolsted stats. :geek:

What are your thoughts?
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adapter
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Re: <Feedback> Tier One

Post#10 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:42 am

I would have 4 Greenskin characters to play and stay 15 forever, i love TIER1

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