Debate about why Order is how it is.

[teiloh]

4. Somehow make AM/Runie more viable in comparison to their destro counterparts?
RP is fine because of +healing output synergy with WPs. AM is max 1 in WB ideally, and would need significant changes to break that synergy

The Zealot has the same tactic. There is no magic synergy here. A Zealot's tactic will synergize just as well with any tactic a DOK puts on to increase healing output.

[Nameless]

4. Somehow make AM/Runie more viable in comparison to their destro counterparts?
RP is fine because of +healing output synergy with WPs. AM is max 1 in WB ideally, and would need significant changes to break that synergy

The Zealot has the same tactic. There is no magic synergy here. A Zealot's tactic will synergize just as well with any tactic a DOK puts on to increase healing output.

He prolly mean that self pump tactic and woi give edge for the zealot.
Personally after woi, um fix, i would say that rp got abit ahead thanks to superior defense tactics, but that is prolly only me. In reality both classes are so close that it is pointless to compare tham

[Bloodlet]

1. Somehow make IB wb viable.
Probably isn't possible given the skills it has and what SM can bring to the table

Perhaps if KoTBS is the best group buffer and the SM is whatever they are, then IB could be the best single target buffer turning their oath friend into a superhero which could be achieved by increasing the range of oath friend and altering the strength and duration of the buffs.

[Panodil]

4. Somehow make AM/Runie more viable in comparison to their destro counterparts?
RP is fine because of +healing output synergy with WPs. AM is max 1 in WB ideally, and would need significant changes to break that synergy

The Zealot has the same tactic. There is no magic synergy here. A Zealot's tactic will synergize just as well with any tactic a DOK puts on to increase healing output.

He prolly mean that self pump tactic and woi give edge for the zealot.
Personally after woi, um fix, i would say that rp got abit ahead thanks to superior defense tactics, but that is prolly only me. In reality both classes are so close that it is pointless to compare tham

lol selfpump tactic, dont think anyone use that. If we had a m4 like RP it would be insane ofc.

[Martok]

Perhaps if KoTBS is the best group buffer and the SM is whatever they are, then IB could be the best single target buffer turning their oath friend into a superhero which could be achieved by increasing the range of oath friend and altering the strength and duration of the buffs.

Buuuuut...perhaps if the Superhero were an Ironbreaker buffering the best group and a single-target SM even had an oath friend, which I doubt because those guys are so obnoxious, then the Knight could increase the range of altering the strength which could be achieved by whatever.

What do you think?

[Draugris]

Yes and order always win keeps unless heavily outnumbered.

Not my impression and i play both sides. Keeps are usually won by the faction which brings most numbers, regardless who it is

[hammerhead]

1. Somehow make IB wb viable.
Probably isn't possible given the skills it has and what SM can bring to the table

But it would be nice to level the damage at least in Vengeance to the Chosen\BO level. It is strange to see in the log at 700 strength and 500 weapons skill (unbuffed) the damage is 50-60 for the equally dressed chosen and in response to receive 250 - 350.

[Hypernia]

The RP / WP synergy is that combo has the best healing output. And 1sec groups heals at +25% makes up for the lower base healing on it. AM cant compete in that regard.

IB needs some love. It's essentially a ST parry and crit buff. The rest are far less impactful. Converting the magic shield to all damage would be a small, useful change.

Maybe something like a tactic where if you change oathfriend your first buff affects both targets? But oathfriend gets a 30s cd

[normanis]

destro always win city sieges there is some balance isues for real. byt noone believe it maby i play on diferent server.

Yes and order always win keeps unless heavily outnumbered.

well mostly ppl give up keeps and forts for 3-6 royals . byt sometimes yes order torn on i am order. and stay till last men. byt funnel anyway favour defenders , even destro( u dont need to be order to spam aoe in choke point). who have more players + brain = win. there are specific players who stand into pushes and dont let their realm mates go in = oil victims = wipe , and than xrealm.
byt when there is 24vs24 destro always win or most of time

[Detangler]

I wonder how much more even the score would be in city sieges if more order players actually took the time to form balanced groups. Yesterday I was in Altdorf 1.... (ONE!) and order brought 12 dps, 7 healers, and 3 tanks. When that many players just immediate solo queue without even trying, of course the scores will be skewed in Destro's favor. Those players had plenty of time to try to get something put together, but chose to just not care and get steamrolled for 3 crests and a shot at bags.

Minus the warband viability discrepancy between Squig and SW, the sides are mostly even. Plenty of order players have shown it. Get good or get wrecked.