No Exp Book

[Vampire]

I know you wanna try to be constructive, but there always be ppl exploit it somehow, rank 39 that had lotd weapon + rr70+ where just make so much damage on t3 that you end dead stop.
Look at last event war have , de-booster worked great, had some issue with some set not scaling well ( but that can be fixed easily) but t1 never was so full of ppl. That can be done for each tier and each tier could make some difference to arrive at capital. Other good way could be found remove an exploitable itiem. Or otherwise put better restriction. Rank 39 no renow restriction was an error. Have to be said there were lotd bugged weapon, here won't be the case.

But A simple week de-booster rotation could make 1 tier x week full of ppl.... if you even put some linked to capital/relic you cannot go wrong. Put a no exp book will not make ppl remain on t1-t2-t3 forever they will simple use it for have better renow before enter on t4.

T1-T3 will remaind dead unless a de-booster occur

Here we go agian

[Khorvald]

@Khorvald:
I meant Tesq, who was claiming that T3 twinked out chars were a pain. It is always easier to blame the enemy for losing. I don't think so.

My last statement was not exaggerated at all. It happened not only once. Good positioning and situational awareness is more worth than items.
It becomes different in T4 as gear gaps are much bigger, when entering with low rr.
All in all T2-T3 had the best item balance, because even new toons got their items fairly quick.

I see. I also don't remember T3 twinks being that bad (or common), the major offenders in my experience were always in T1 and T2. As for naked, out of group DoKs outhealing Zealots and Shaman, I think I see what you're getting at now. Before it sounded like you were implying that situation was commonplace. Sure, a naked, out of group DoK that plays exceptionally well will outperform a Zealot or Shaman that isn't paying attention but then so would a WE with a health pot. That isn't a class balance issue. I'm sorry you ran into such garbage Zealots and Shaman.

Getting back on topic, even if the devs don't want to put restrictions on talis/pots, twinks in T1 and T2 still wouldn't really be an issue if we had the no exp book. Just skip T1 and T2 RvR all together and then max out your renown in T3 with the no exp book if you don't want to deal with them.

I would also like to reiterate a point that I made earlier in the thread. Even if we do not have the no exp book in RoR there could still very well be twinks in T1 and T2. There were twinks in the vanilla game before the book existed and based on the behavior I've witnessed in RoR over the last week, I imagine there will be here as well. Not having the book would not prevent that and would only hinder other players that just want to cap their renown before moving on to the next tier (especially T4).

I just cannot see twinks as a reason not to have the book.

[Morf]

I see. I also don't remember T3 twinks being that bad (or common)

I just cannot see twinks as a reason not to have the book.

T3 twinks were very common and very much overpowered but it was also down to no renown cap and lotd stuff.

Twinks are the biggest reason to be against a no xp book, it is no fun fighting a superior geared player as a lowbie especially when u dont have the spec points and stuff to make your char unique, in t1 every player of each class is stuck with set boundaries and generally played the same and i guess you could say the same about t2.

A no xp book would help, if u wana help a friend or your guild in a lower tier it would suck to keep rerolling chars when they level out of a tier and also for any rvr events. If anyone leveled new chars on the old servers you would of noticed that t2 was a complete ghost down despite it being the most balanced tier of all and you could argue when **** was active it was the most fun.
Like i said earlier in this thread the only way a no xp book would work without giving players the option to seriously twink out a char and giving themselves a big advantage over players just leveling through a tier is by having a max rank on no xp books for example-

tier 1 level 1-15 no xp book set to rank 10 rr10 or 20
tier2 level 12-25 no xp book set to rank 20 rr30 or 40
tier 3 level 22(?)-39 no xp book set to 30 rr50 or 60
So there would be 3 different no xp books 1 for each tier and no way to fully twink a char out. Players with no xp book would still be competitive, have an advantage against fresh players into a tier but a disadvantage to players leveling through a tier so that level 20 guy with a no xp book who killed you as a fresh player into the tier will later become weaker to you so you can get your revenge.
just an idea

[Sulorie]

Too complicated, just make lotd weapons all lvl40, including lotd talis and the issue is fixed.

[Khorvald]

I see. I also don't remember T3 twinks being that bad (or common)

I just cannot see twinks as a reason not to have the book.

T3 twinks were very common and very much overpowered but it was also down to no renown cap and lotd stuff.

Twinks are the biggest reason to be against a no xp book, it is no fun fighting a superior geared player as a lowbie especially when u dont have the spec points and stuff to make your char unique, in t1 every player of each class is stuck with set boundaries and generally played the same and i guess you could say the same about t2.

A no xp book would help, if u wana help a friend or your guild in a lower tier it would suck to keep rerolling chars when they level out of a tier and also for any rvr events. If anyone leveled new chars on the old servers you would of noticed that t2 was a complete ghost down despite it being the most balanced tier of all and you could argue when **** was active it was the most fun.
Like i said earlier in this thread the only way a no xp book would work without giving players the option to seriously twink out a char and giving themselves a big advantage over players just leveling through a tier is by having a max rank on no xp books for example-

tier 1 level 1-15 no xp book set to rank 10 rr10 or 20
tier2 level 12-25 no xp book set to rank 20 rr30 or 40
tier 3 level 22(?)-39 no xp book set to 30 rr50 or 60
So there would be 3 different no xp books 1 for each tier and no way to fully twink a char out. Players with no xp book would still be competitive, have an advantage against fresh players into a tier but a disadvantage to players leveling through a tier so that level 20 guy with a no xp book who killed you as a fresh player into the tier will later become weaker to you so you can get your revenge.
just an idea

I agree with Sulorie, I think that is too complicated and honestly unnecessary. You also seem to be forgetting or ignoring that the no exp book is not what creates twinks and also that not having it in the game will do nothing to prevent players from making them.

That being said, I do appreciate your (and everyone's) contribution to the discussion.

[jonathanmurphy3]

Without XP off T1 will die off as soon as T2 is released. Lots of RvR lakes were empty on live, especially in the lower tiers, don't want that to happen here. Balance talismans for tier 1 and 2, or simply not add them at all if it means breaking the current meta. Just my .02 cents.

Population issues are going to be a recurring problem, regardless. Once T2 is released, RoR will amass more players: but the T1 lakes will probably become empty, too.

[Morf]

I agree with Sulorie, I think that is too complicated and honestly unnecessary. You also seem to be forgetting or ignoring that the no exp book is not what creates twinks and also that not having it in the game will do nothing to prevent players from making them.

That being said, I do appreciate your (and everyone's) contribution to the discussion.

I disagree, while players still have the option to gear out there chars to the max them players will soon move to the next tier when they are at that tier's max level and most powerful making the twink problem a minor one, now u give them the opportunity to stay in a tier at the highest level allowed u have twinks that wont move on and are allowed to stay at the highest power level in that tier which is where the problem comes in to play. You could see this problem at its worse in t3 and to a minor extent with the old trial system in t1, difference being in t3 the players who used no xp book had the chance to use the most powerful items avaliable where as t1 trials could only use max level 10 items so a level 15 player leveling through t1 could use better items.
I dont think you are going to get many ppl agreeing to a no xp book when the option is there for players to use the most powerful items avaliable for a tier which is why i thought my suggestion would help. Cheers

[Sulorie]

With twinks you could make rvr events in certain tiers, when players have the chance to park chars in every tier.
The gear progression below T4 is so flat, powergaps hardly exist. The differences in T1 are bigger than in T2-T3.
Max rank was not even the best for all classes as you lost the bolster buff. Without LotD there won't be any high power in gear. I don't know what you fear.

[Morf]

With twinks you could make rvr events in certain tiers, when players have the chance to park chars in every tier.
The gear progression below T4 is so flat, powergaps hardly exist. The differences in T1 are bigger than in T2-T3.
Max rank was not even the best for all classes as you lost the bolster buff. Without LotD there won't be any high power in gear. I don't know what you fear.

Being able to attend a rvr event, help guildies/friends yes ofc that is why i would like a no xp book but allowing players to stay in a tier at max level is bad, simple as that, twinks were hated for obvious reason and thats why most ppl will never wont no xp books.
What i fear ? isnt that obvious ? you could see the general feeling towards ppl who stayed in t1 or t3 on the old servers.

[Khorvald]

I agree with Sulorie, I think that is too complicated and honestly unnecessary. You also seem to be forgetting or ignoring that the no exp book is not what creates twinks and also that not having it in the game will do nothing to prevent players from making them.

That being said, I do appreciate your (and everyone's) contribution to the discussion.

I disagree, while players still have the option to gear out there chars to the max them players will soon move to the next tier when they are at that tier's max level and most powerful making the twink problem a minor one, now u give them the opportunity to stay in a tier at the highest level allowed u have twinks that wont move on and are allowed to stay at the highest power level in that tier which is where the problem comes in to play. You could see this problem at its worse in t3 and to a minor extent with the old trial system in t1, difference being in t3 the players who used no xp book had the chance to use the most powerful items avaliable where as t1 trials could only use max level 10 items so a level 15 player leveling through t1 could use better items.
I dont think you are going to get many ppl agreeing to a no xp book when the option is there for players to use the most powerful items avaliable for a tier which is why i thought my suggestion would help. Cheers

I think you underestimate how long a player can stay in a given tier by just running around griefing non twinks. If they don't actively participate in activities that give large amounts of exp then they can stay in a tier for quite a long time indeed. That's why I say that not having the no exp book would not prevent people from making twinks.

Not only is the "best gear" not the main issue with twinks, it's also available to everyone in that tier without needing a higher level character to get it for them. The problem with twinks stemmed from players being able to use talismans and potions that gave them stat increases that were way too large for their level. Consume a 800 armor pot that was made by a T4 character while you're in T2 and suddenly you're practically immune to physical damage. That was the issue with vanilla WAR twinks and it can be brought back in-line in RoR if the devs want to.

At this point I believe I've offered solutions to every argument against having it in the game. If there are concerns that haven't been covered already I would really like to hear them.