Choppa's Pull

[farng84]

So what you are moaning about is that Slayer beats Choppa in 1 vs 1 because of Rampage, who cares the game isn't balance around 1 v 1 . Just about every 2 handed tank beats slayer 1 v 1 , Slayer is free RP for most WE and Magus and Shammy.

Funny thing...when a good point is made the answer is: "change topic plz"
You said Slayers are as brittle as choppas, we answered, no choppas are squishier...
You new point being? Choppas are butchered by tanks, WH and rdps too, so I would say this aspect is balanced.

I might want to look how much damage/distress you can cause before being killed by the abovementioned classes btw

[CountTalabecland]

I agree, that's why I always post the question regarding the number of choppa necessary to kill a slayer.
I would like the same amount of balance for other classes too. If that could be achieved choosing order or destro would be just matter of which look/concept you like better, which would be awesome

Be gone with your 100% mirrors. This is not WoW or some other red vs. blue game. The balance is an indirect mirror for a reason, so that the factions are not clones. Order is simply asking that GTDC respect immunities and have a flight time that isnt bugged, and have a minimum distance so that is behaves like the other rules for melee pulls.

why you want to GTDC respect immunities and Rampage dosn't ?

Because that's what Rampage is, it bypasses defense? GTDc is a pull, it is neither intended to, nor does its tooltip state that it ignores cc immunities. How is that even up for debate?

[farng84]

If you are talking about forts and keeps mdps get stuck in the door for about 5 seconds , then melt in about 2 once inside

I am talking in general, but still if you are alive for 7 secs you can deliver more damage than if you are alive for 2, that's just normal

[farng84]

Be gone with your 100% mirrors. This is not WoW or some other red vs. blue game. The balance is an indirect mirror for a reason, so that the factions are not clones. Order is simply asking that GTDC respect immunities and have a flight time that isnt bugged, and have a minimum distance so that is behaves like the other rules for melee pulls.

why you want to GTDC respect immunities and Rampage dosn't ?

Because that's what Rampage is, it bypasses defense? GTDc is a pull, it is neither intended to, nor does its tooltip state that it ignores cc immunities. How is that even up for debate?

There is no debate on bugs...bugs should be noted and corrected, that's normal

[Gurf]

So what you are moaning about is that Slayer beats Choppa in 1 vs 1 because of Rampage, who cares the game isn't balance around 1 v 1 . Just about every 2 handed tank beats slayer 1 v 1 , Slayer is free RP for most WE and Magus and Shammy.

Funny thing...when a good point is made the answer is: "change topic plz"
You said Slayers are as brittle as choppas, we answered, no choppas are squishier...
You new point being? Choppas are butchered by tanks, WH and rdps too, so I would say this aspect is balanced.

I might want to look how much damage/distress you can cause before being killed by the abovementioned classes btw

Nobody has actually explained why Choppas are more brittle, nobody has actually given me any evidence of abilities or tactics which explain that except by lazily saying "M1" , just seems to be a belief without any foundation in reality

[CountTalabecland]

Spoiler:

I agree, that's why I always post the question regarding the number of choppa necessary to kill a slayer.
I would like the same amount of balance for other classes too. If that could be achieved choosing order or destro would be just matter of which look/concept you like better, which would be awesome

Be gone with your 100% mirrors. This is not WoW or some other red vs. blue game. The balance is an offset mirror for a reason. Order is simply asking that GTDC respect immunities and have a flight time that isnt bugged, and have a minimum distance so that is behaves like the other rules for melee pulls.

I agree that bugs should be corrected, always.
But I did not say perfect mirror, I said balance, which means equivalence... If BW is a little stronger on aoe and Scorc a little better on single target it is balanced but the class concepts (and looks) are very different. If one of the two parts is too weak there is no balance and one class sucks.
Like I said balance should be two sided, asking "please dev make their strong points as weak as our weak points but leave our strength unmatched" is just sad. And that was the theme of this post as that of most posts requesting nerfs.

Overall, the point I always make in my posts is ask for proper balance or don't even bother writing...

You said that choosing should just depend on look/concept, I am saying that the beauty of the way this game works is that it requires more thought than that on which class to bring because they are asymmetrical rather than only skin deep.

[gurtuk]

GTTC isn't bugged it's actually tested a lot to see if it ignores immunities, 100 times out of 100 it doesn't. It's also a horrible ability that destro players scorn you for using in most instances.

[CountTalabecland]

Spoiler:

So what you are moaning about is that Slayer beats Choppa in 1 vs 1 because of Rampage, who cares the game isn't balance around 1 v 1 . Just about every 2 handed tank beats slayer 1 v 1 , Slayer is free RP for most WE and Magus and Shammy.

Funny thing...when a good point is made the answer is: "change topic plz"
You said Slayers are as brittle as choppas, we answered, no choppas are squishier...
You new point being? Choppas are butchered by tanks, WH and rdps too, so I would say this aspect is balanced.

I might want to look how much damage/distress you can cause before being killed by the abovementioned classes btw

Nobody has actually explained why Choppas are more brittle, nobody has actually given me any evidence of abilities or tactics which explain that except by lazily saying "M1" , just seems to be a belief without any foundation in reality

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for evidence to appear. 1v1 spec Choppa/Slayer duel entirely depends on the player/gear/spec and who gets the first strike. It, like most 1v1s (except for things involving White Lions and Shamans), depends way more on the player than the class. Unless you are getting kited and unable to fight back or pounced on as a RDPS/Healer and blown up, then you are pretty much screwed.

[CountTalabecland]

GTTC isn't bugged it's actually tested a lot to see if it ignores immunities, 100 times out of 100 it doesn't. It's also a horrible ability that destro players scorn you for using in most instances.

Yes my bad, I said it ignores immunities earlier which is wrong, what I was referring to is getting pulled, landing at the choppa, and then not getting granted immunity and cc'd again. As far as I can tell that is still happening/has been confirmed?

[farng84]

Spoiler:

Be gone with your 100% mirrors. This is not WoW or some other red vs. blue game. The balance is an offset mirror for a reason. Order is simply asking that GTDC respect immunities and have a flight time that isnt bugged, and have a minimum distance so that is behaves like the other rules for melee pulls.

I agree that bugs should be corrected, always.
But I did not say perfect mirror, I said balance, which means equivalence... If BW is a little stronger on aoe and Scorc a little better on single target it is balanced but the class concepts (and looks) are very different. If one of the two parts is too weak there is no balance and one class sucks.
Like I said balance should be two sided, asking "please dev make their strong points as weak as our weak points but leave our strength unmatched" is just sad. And that was the theme of this post as that of most posts requesting nerfs.

Overall, the point I always make in my posts is ask for proper balance or don't even bother writing...

You said that choosing should just depend on look/concept, I am saying that the beauty of the way this game works is that it requires more thought than that on which class to bring because they are asymmetrical rather than only skin deep.

I don't understand, my thought process is much easier, let me make an example:
1) I like mages
2) what mage classes are available
3) what are their mechanics (which are well mirrored)
4) Which of the two mirror option has the look I like better
5) that's my character

Even if there is a small asymmetry I expect the mirrors to be balanced. Hence, I just look kind of class (tank, dps, heal), mechanics and look.