Choppa's Pull

[mryay]

Keep GTDC has it is. It is a fun and challenging mechanic, and it make the game richer. There are counters, like interrupts, KD, etc.
There is a proliferation of Choppas, indeed, and the skill is really useful. What I think it is a significant realm imbalance. What is needed in my humble opinion is a mirror on Order.

This is a suggestion: viewtopic.php?p=427603#p427603

PS: I play order exclusively.

Cheers, Swizz

[Cobra81]

But seeing as both sides have agreed that they don't like the pull they should remove it, destro keep saying they don't like it as gives away immunities so remove it and up the damage a bit and everyone is happy.

They also say, that they want gtdc swap with rampage.

But what have we seen yesterday? 2 Choppas in each wb grp + 2 BO´s guarding them. charging the keep/fort with them, spamming gtdc and every defending order is flying around, get rekt and keep/fort is taken in 5-10 minutes.

They love their gtdc, they arent serious when the say something like "removing" or "swapping."

[Rapzel]

So a Black Guard has the ability Furious Howl to aoe reduction of Block/Parry by 10%, all you need is a couple of BG and you have a permanent reduction of whole WB of block and parry, with decent Str that isn't going to leave much left. All this moan about 10 sec of Rampage when you already have up a permanent block/parry debuff on your side.

Uh do you understand how block and parry works?

Engineer and SW has the same ability but as a tactic and cover a lot bigger aoe

[Gurf]

So a Black Guard has the ability Furious Howl to aoe reduction of Block/Parry by 10%, all you need is a couple of BG and you have a permanent reduction of whole WB of block and parry, with decent Str that isn't going to leave much left. All this moan about 10 sec of Rampage when you already have up a permanent block/parry debuff on your side.

Uh do you understand how block and parry works?

Engineer and SW has the same ability but as a tactic and cover a lot bigger aoe

If you mean Pierce Defences its not the same ability as its triggered by successful avoid, for SW its not worth tactic slot for single target and SH can also use it on the front line with their aoe

[Rapzel]

sounds good to me, remove GTDC and give 'em Rampage... I'll be happy to remove it from them after 1 gcd and then they have to wait 30s to reapply it. It would take like 2 hours and all choppas would burst into tears

Yea, because stripping a single enchantment (lul get rekt IB) out of 10 active that are reapplied every 1.5 sec is really EZ compared to pressing taunt, interrupt, stun/stagger or punt.

normally I don't duel myself mentally with an unarmed guy, but you make me to...
IB can buff up Slayer each 1.5 with his BLESSINGS... Rampage = ENTCHANTMENT get it?

Now go to Career builder and check how many Order skills there are to cover Rampage for slayer,
Spoiler alert, beside AM, almost none... And AM is so popular, every Slayer wanna 2 of them in party

Now get out of my face with that, 10 skills covering Rampage bullshit
Bringing up wrong statements only that you GTDC doesnt get nerfed... just poor

There's still enchantments to cover rampage, someone counted up to 10 in the post after yours, get to da choppa can't be covered by anything and can be interrupted by a plethora of spells/abilities, that are RANGED, while all dispell enchantments (all 4) are melee range (5 feet).

But you were okay with giving rampage to choppa instead of the current finisher that gives choppa AP back then I guess?

[Rapzel]

So a Black Guard has the ability Furious Howl to aoe reduction of Block/Parry by 10%, all you need is a couple of BG and you have a permanent reduction of whole WB of block and parry, with decent Str that isn't going to leave much left. All this moan about 10 sec of Rampage when you already have up a permanent block/parry debuff on your side.

Uh do you understand how block and parry works?

Engineer and SW has the same ability but as a tactic and cover a lot bigger aoe

If you mean Pierce Defences its not the same ability as its triggered by successful avoid, for SW its not worth tactic slot for single target and SH can also use it on the front line with their aoe

For warbands it certainly is worth it to have one ranged with it slotted, and as these don't stack I still don't see the point of how 10% block parry reduction = 100% parry strike through?

Guard damage is a 0 str melee attack, so even if you have 2000 str/bs/int guard will mitigate 50% of the damage and then probably avoided by the tank.

Rampage makes all attacks undefendable, i.e they can't be defended, now why is this a big thing?
Because the guard damage transferred to the tank is still marked as undefendable, i.e tanks cannot under any circumstances avoid this damage, only counterplay there is stripping (which is difficult when there's several slayers) or using damage reduction like Morales.
Parry or block Morales? Nullified by a 5 point ability.

Sure get to da choppa is also undefendable and you can get pulled but it hits for way less damage than bring it on/retribution, it's in a 30 feet radius around the choppa (should be 20 but actually seems bugged because of how they changed melee range to be 5 ft because of lag), and it ticks for about 6-800 dmg every two seconds, I have bring it on/retri hits of around 1800-1900 dmg, they hit for every second and it's a 45 feet frontal cone.

Now imagine 4-5 slayers coordinating their retribution and hitting for around 1200 dmg each hit every second, wbs will melt. And compare it to 5 choppas running around hitting for 350 dmg every second. This is why I'm saying sure remove the pull mechanic but make it do more damage or give the skill some other benefit, because now it's just exploited by the top tier choppas to get the instant double aoe tick.

[Gurf]

If your whole WB is dying to retribution then that is a player issue as the WB is clearly all clumped up in the same spot, if you see it coming spread out and then res the one person who dies. Choppa has the same ability as retribution it is just going to be blocked less 10 out of every 30 seconds

Order have had to try find counters to Destro melee train for months, if one order instance out of 20 has stacked Slayers and can now do a better melee train than Destro can then they are going to have to try to find a counter or alternative strategy other than the melee ball, which has led to a 75% Destro win rate.

You might have to try a different approach like Order has been repeatedly told to do, or alternatively you can come here and try get Slayer nerfed (like the person now complaining about ID) so you can continue or up your win rate to 85% +, or get Choppa damage buffed so the Destro melee ball has 0 counters no matter what Order stacks with better aoe cc, better aoe utility and better aoe damage.

[Likeaboss]

Spoiler:

Yea, because stripping a single enchantment (lul get rekt IB) out of 10 active that are reapplied every 1.5 sec is really EZ compared to pressing taunt, interrupt, stun/stagger or punt.

normally I don't duel myself mentally with an unarmed guy, but you make me to...
IB can buff up Slayer each 1.5 with his BLESSINGS... Rampage = ENTCHANTMENT get it?

Now go to Career builder and check how many Order skills there are to cover Rampage for slayer,
Spoiler alert, beside AM, almost none... And AM is so popular, every Slayer wanna 2 of them in party

Now get out of my face with that, 10 skills covering Rampage bullshit
Bringing up wrong statements only that you GTDC doesnt get nerfed... just poor

slayer has 3, BW has 2 spamable, AM have spamable (5) not grp depending enchantments (4). also engi has one too. think thats atleast 10.

if anything works like the standard rules for game imply. i think its way easier to hide ya rampage then your gtdc.

Slayer has 3, 2 of the, with 60s CD, easy to spam to cover up Rampage... BW, okay i agree there, but BW's wont rebuff infight every 5 seconds
BTW, Show me the party, running slayer, BW, engi, AM... Must be new meta

[Likeaboss]

Spoiler:

Yea, because stripping a single enchantment (lul get rekt IB) out of 10 active that are reapplied every 1.5 sec is really EZ compared to pressing taunt, interrupt, stun/stagger or punt.

normally I don't duel myself mentally with an unarmed guy, but you make me to...
IB can buff up Slayer each 1.5 with his BLESSINGS... Rampage = ENTCHANTMENT get it?

Now go to Career builder and check how many Order skills there are to cover Rampage for slayer,
Spoiler alert, beside AM, almost none... And AM is so popular, every Slayer wanna 2 of them in party

Now get out of my face with that, 10 skills covering Rampage bullshit
Bringing up wrong statements only that you GTDC doesnt get nerfed... just poor

There's still enchantments to cover rampage, someone counted up to 10 in the post after yours, get to da choppa can't be covered by anything and can be interrupted by a plethora of spells/abilities, that are RANGED, while all dispell enchantments (all 4) are melee range (5 feet).

But you were okay with giving rampage to choppa instead of the current finisher that gives choppa AP back then I guess?

Sure, like i said... Give rampage to choppa but remove this shitty AoE undefendable, behind your back pull

[Rapzel]

If your whole WB is dying to retribution then that is a player issue as the WB is clearly all clumped up in the same spot, if you see it coming spread out and then res the one person who dies. Choppa has the same ability as retribution it is just going to be blocked less 10 out of every 30 seconds

Order have had to try find counters to Destro melee train for months, if one order instance out of 20 has stacked Slayers and can now do a better melee train than Destro can then they are going to have to try to find a counter or alternative strategy other than the melee ball, which has led to a 75% Destro win rate.

You might have to try a different approach like Order has been repeatedly told to do, or alternatively you can come here and try get Slayer nerfed (like the person now complaining about ID) so you can continue or up your win rate to 85% +, or get Choppa damage buffed so the Destro melee ball has 0 counters no matter what Order stacks with better aoe cc, better aoe utility and better aoe damage.

We don't, I haven't lost a city in ages, but when I join fenryl's /5 WB and win 2/3 stages with maybe 12 "core" players and the rest pug fillers on under geared characters, against TUP + Phalanx it makes me wonder if the issue really is this God Tier Choppa career, or if it's a PEBKAC.