[Knight/Chosen] Aura Rework

[Foofmonger]

respectively, here is an idea:

if its not broken, don't fix it.

there are many other areas to work around balancing in this game. this is just frivolous nitpicking.

I literally suggested buffing the auras and making them more interactive. Thanks for your opinion on a random idea in a topic I didn't even make the OP of.

I get that the concept of ideation is hard for some people though. However some of us like to think about the possibilities of how things "could be". Your opinion is noted, thanks!

I hope you understand this wasn't an attack or whatever. I'm just saying that this would be some hardcore reworking and would change a lot of things about how these toons are played. I'm speaking personally that the auras are the reason why i chose KOTBS to play and main. The auras are always up and gives me purpose in a party/warband other than a guard/challenge bot that is hard to kill. that way other forms of CC in the kit can be focused on.

I AM glad that knight/chosen hasn't been totally forgotten about though

But my suggestion wasn't the OPs, and I didn't say that they shouldn't always be up my man.

I'm saying, it would be neat if they were always up, and then you could hit them again and they would still always be up but they get temporarily stronger for a limited duration.

I just want to be clear, are you getting me confused with the OP? I had a very different suggestion that doesn't seem to have the same reason for objecting that you are saying here, so I feel very confused by our discussion at this moment. I just think it would be cool if you could "boost" your auras. Whether or not that is realistic, should happen, etc... I neither care nor really know, just saying it would put some more interactivity into the class.

[Zorinxus]

To speak of- from having both chosen and bg, bg isn't actually more complicated to play- on chosen I actually have to make more tactical decisions- bg is just more annoying. You are not actually deciding on bg in each fight which debuffs exactly are you going to apply, you apply most of them in same 12345 order, its just that instead of the process being automatic you have to press that 12345 each fight, while also juggling Dark Protector.

Thats while on chosen you do actually have to make tactical decisions mid fight- do I want to keep this aura up, or do I want to replace is with this one cause of X and Y, do I want to use Ravage vs this toon (lower ap cost) or Cleave (higher ap cost but need it since he seems to have too much parry), do I want to use combination of ap aura drain and Withering Blow vs this toon to put pressure/to lower his dps, or do I need a different approach, is it a good moment to hit the targets with Quake, or will it give free immunities without good tradeoff, ets.

Chosen being low skill class is a myth, it does has a low skill floor (buff bot) but actually high skill ceiling.

Mid fight, when you do decide to rotate auras, it doesnt help that there is a 4 second window that your other auras are on cooldown before activating them. the auras also have a ceiling, based on your mastery tree.

[Zorinxus]

I literally suggested buffing the auras and making them more interactive. Thanks for your opinion on a random idea in a topic I didn't even make the OP of.

I get that the concept of ideation is hard for some people though. However some of us like to think about the possibilities of how things "could be". Your opinion is noted, thanks!

I hope you understand this wasn't an attack or whatever. I'm just saying that this would be some hardcore reworking and would change a lot of things about how these toons are played. I'm speaking personally that the auras are the reason why i chose KOTBS to play and main. The auras are always up and gives me purpose in a party/warband other than a guard/challenge bot that is hard to kill. that way other forms of CC in the kit can be focused on.

I AM glad that knight/chosen hasn't been totally forgotten about though

But my suggestion wasn't the OPs, and I didn't say that they shouldn't always be up my man.

I'm saying, it would be neat if they were always up, and then you could hit them again and they would still always be up but they get temporarily stronger for a limited duration.

I just want to be clear, are you getting me confused with the OP? I had a very different suggestion that doesn't seem to have the same reason for objecting that you are saying here, so I feel very confused by our discussion at this moment. I just think it would be cool if you could "boost" your auras. Whether or not that is realistic, should happen, etc... I neither care nor really know, just saying it would put some more interactivity into the class.

Forgiveness please, I must have quoted you too, it wasn't towards you my dude, meant to only quote OP. As you can see from my NO. of posts, I must still not used to posting on these forums.

[Zxul]

Mid fight, when you do decide to rotate auras, it doesnt help that there is a 4 second window that your other auras are on cooldown before activating them. the auras also have a ceiling, based on your mastery tree.

Its things like do I want aoe dmg aura now to put more pressure, or will aoe heal debuff aura+ap aura drain +Withering work better? Is it time to switch dmg aura for magical reflect aura? Do I need now extra healing from healing aura, or it isn't urgent and I prefer specific other one in the moment? ets

[M0rw47h]

1. Why do you hate chosen/kotb?
2. Quite a few auras (kotb melee thorns vs destro melee deathball, chosen magic thorns vs bw spam), especially if empowered even if for a short time, will be incredibly overpowered if affecting all in 30 f and not just team. Just ask engies, who got their Napalm (+magus Mist) nerfed, after reacting to chosen Dire Shielding tactic being fixed, causing it to work in exactly the way which you suggested for auras.
3. Does 100 f, and affecting all around offensive target, includes the dmg aura?

1. I don't hate my "main".
2. You still can have 4x OYG/DF in your WB now. Having KotBS/CH rotating them would be no different, it would just take slightly more work for a bit more benefit. It wouldn't stack, because why would it.
3. 100 ft is range, 30 ft is radius, and thats just an example, could be different for each Battle Command, no?

this^
the auras are what pull me and a lot of others to Knight/chosen. the "fire and forget" allows room for more effective taunts, challenges and other forms of focused CC. the more on their plate = less appeal for tanks to be played.

Sounds fair.

Why not just do something like:

Nerf all KOTBS/Chosen Aura values by a small amount.

Allow them to "empower" the Aura by hitting it again when its up (with a cooldown). When they empower the Aura, it makes it stronger.

So example,

Lets say we have 100 toughenss buff/debuff aura. Nerf it down to 80 (20% nerf), then, for X seconds when you "empower it" it it buffs/debuffs by 150 (50% increase).
'
This would make auras "slightly" worse as fire and forgets, but make them stronger when empowered, allowing the Chosen/KotBS to use their auras in situational contexts. Lets say you are about to get bombed, you use the empower toughness aura ability to give an extra 70 toughness to your group to increase the amount they mitigate, and so on and so forth.

Thats a nice idea actualy.

Would this even work within the framework of the game? Hitting the aura a second time would just deactivate it, yeah?

There could be extra ability to do so.

[Foofmonger]

Yea now that I think about it you could create an ability called

"Empower Aura" 5 second cooldown - doesn't trigger GCD

The next aura you cast empowers that aura for 5 seconds, giving it additional power (each aura would get a specific boost, with that tooltip on the aura itself). If you empower an aura you already have active, this does not remove the aura.

To be fair though, the only way to make something like this balanced currently would be to nerf some of the current auras while they are not "empowered". You can also tweak duration/cooldown, it could be 10/10 instead of 5/5 or whatever.

[Zxul]

1. Why do you hate chosen/kotb?
2. Quite a few auras (kotb melee thorns vs destro melee deathball, chosen magic thorns vs bw spam), especially if empowered even if for a short time, will be incredibly overpowered if affecting all in 30 f and not just team. Just ask engies, who got their Napalm (+magus Mist) nerfed, after reacting to chosen Dire Shielding tactic being fixed, causing it to work in exactly the way which you suggested for auras.
3. Does 100 f, and affecting all around offensive target, includes the dmg aura?

1. I don't hate my "main".
2. You still can have 4x OYG/DF in your WB now. Having KotBS/CH rotating them would be no different, it would just take slightly more work for a bit more benefit. It wouldn't stack, because why would it.
3. 100 ft is range, 30 ft is radius, and thats just an example, could be different for each Battle Command, no?

2. So who exactly will it affect- friendly target and all around it, or wb members? And wouldn't stack- with what? If same bw hits with aoe 10 destro affected by aura of same chosen, will he get back 10x dmg or 1x dmg? If its 10x dmg its overpowered, if its 1x dmg its useless.
3. So which range do you suggest for dmg aura, which won't be a nerf, and won't turn chosen/kotb into sorc?

[zak68]

as a noob s&b kotbs i would prefer leaving basic auras machanic as is, just to keep this class the easier of the three. i would add new auras that to be effective need to be activated by an ability hit, for example: "speed of the myrmidon" grants a 5% movement speed buff that last for 10 seconds and needs a "shield rush" hit on a foe, aura has a cooldown of 30secs and cannot be replaced for 60 secs. or "bolster of the Unberogen" grants a 10% aa increase that last for 10 seconds, needs a successful "shatter confidence", aura has a cooldown of 20secs and cannot be replaced for 30 secs. (numbers and other things are only indicative).

[M0rw47h]

1. Why do you hate chosen/kotb?
2. Quite a few auras (kotb melee thorns vs destro melee deathball, chosen magic thorns vs bw spam), especially if empowered even if for a short time, will be incredibly overpowered if affecting all in 30 f and not just team. Just ask engies, who got their Napalm (+magus Mist) nerfed, after reacting to chosen Dire Shielding tactic being fixed, causing it to work in exactly the way which you suggested for auras.
3. Does 100 f, and affecting all around offensive target, includes the dmg aura?

1. I don't hate my "main".
2. You still can have 4x OYG/DF in your WB now. Having KotBS/CH rotating them would be no different, it would just take slightly more work for a bit more benefit. It wouldn't stack, because why would it.
3. 100 ft is range, 30 ft is radius, and thats just an example, could be different for each Battle Command, no?

2. So who exactly will it affect- friendly target and all around it, or wb members? And wouldn't stack- with what? If same bw hits with aoe 10 destro affected by aura of same chosen, will he get back 10x dmg or 1x dmg? If its 10x dmg its overpowered, if its 1x dmg its useless.
3. So which range do you suggest for dmg aura, which won't be a nerf, and won't turn chosen/kotb into sorc?

2. Well, having ICD per target, doesn't mean a nerf, if numbers are high enough. Right?
3. I guess dmg aura could remain KotBS/CH only, like it's now. Reflect could be ranged.

Yea now that I think about it you could create an ability called

"Empower Aura" 5 second cooldown - doesn't trigger GCD

The next aura you cast empowers that aura for 5 seconds, giving it additional power (each aura would get a specific boost, with that tooltip on the aura itself). If you empower an aura you already have active, this does not remove the aura.

To be fair though, the only way to make something like this balanced currently would be to nerf some of the current auras while they are not "empowered". You can also tweak duration/cooldown, it could be 10/10 instead of 5/5 or whatever.

Well, each Aura could just give a KotBS/CH a granted ability to empower it

[Zxul]

1. I don't hate my "main".
2. You still can have 4x OYG/DF in your WB now. Having KotBS/CH rotating them would be no different, it would just take slightly more work for a bit more benefit. It wouldn't stack, because why would it.
3. 100 ft is range, 30 ft is radius, and thats just an example, could be different for each Battle Command, no?

2. So who exactly will it affect- friendly target and all around it, or wb members? And wouldn't stack- with what? If same bw hits with aoe 10 destro affected by aura of same chosen, will he get back 10x dmg or 1x dmg? If its 10x dmg its overpowered, if its 1x dmg its useless.
3. So which range do you suggest for dmg aura, which won't be a nerf, and won't turn chosen/kotb into sorc?

2. Well, having ICD per target, doesn't mean a nerf, if numbers are high enough. Right?
3. I guess dmg aura could remain KotBS/CH only, like it's now. Reflect could be ranged.

2. Again, which type of ICD? Because specific attacker being able to only hit once per 1 sec by aura of specific chosen/kotb, no matter how many targets protected by the aura does he hits by aoe, is a hard nerf compared to current version. Same is if specific aura only able to hit 1 target per 1 sec, no matter how many attackers hit specific protected target with aoe.