AoE dmg, cap it like Morale

[Gareul]

strikthrough on ranged needs to be lowered in general and yes dodge/disrupt for allot of classes needs some attention on armor sets more defensive weapon procs not just on tanks.

[emiliorv]

Nerfing aoe will encourage Zerging, the proper organised guilds need a way to fight against much higher numbers which is why aoe is needed.

So, that means you are against the morale nerf?

[Rydiak]

Destro just needs to organize better.

[nuadarstark]

I mean...again this is the same crying we are doing about cities on Order and we were told to get better, get more organised, take meta classes, etc. We did that and now we're doing more solid on cities (aside from the neccessary sacrifice of few soloq cities with 12 engies, etc).

Get more ranged dps into your forts, leave the melee deathball to cities. Get siege meta setup. When I as a healer don't even have to heal hard when you're preparing for the pushes cause there is no ranged AoE, you're doing something wrong.

Today we lost Shining Way against determined VII. wb pushing - people actually were getting pressured by AoE on the inside and it was harder than usual to keep people up. Do more of that.

[TreefAM]

The 24 aoe cap is here for the reason. You can still break forts if you actually TRY and bring the right comps. I mean look at Reikwald tonight, destro abandoned it to go afk in Shining Way and we nearly lost both because of that, but those same people would come and whine about how destro can't push.

Smaller organized group need tools to fight the zerg, and for now the aoe cap is one of the few things we have going for us.

[TenaciousBuf]

The 24 aoe cap is here for the reason. You can still break forts if you actually TRY and bring the right comps. I mean look at Reikwald tonight, destro abandoned it to go afk in Shining Way and we nearly lost both because of that, but those same people would come and whine about how destro can't push.

Smaller organized group need tools to fight the zerg, and for now the aoe cap is one of the few things we have going for us.

I cant blame them for leaving Reikwald, it is a record as an unbitable fort unless there is like no order there. However some did come back so cant really say they afked in Shinning way. And yes, limiting aoe number of targets is a good thing. And maybe adjust that range a little. You have so many classes with ranged aoe, why would it be a worry to you? You still will be able to nook plenty of targets while it will help with some pushes rather than just melting at the door step. Also a comment like smaller groups need a tool to fight a zerg is a little to much. You are basically describing a tool you have to take on much larger groups with small numbers. Does not seam like a well balanced scenario.

[TreefAM]

And yes, limiting aoe number of targets is a good thing. And maybe adjust that range a little. You have so many classes with ranged aoe, why would it be a worry to you? You still will be able to nook plenty of targets while it will help with some pushes rather than just melting at the door step. Also a comment like smaller groups need a tool to fight a zerg is a little to much. You are basically describing a tool you have to take on much larger groups with small numbers. Does not seam like a well balanced scenario.

Alright didn't realize you're just a zergling who pushes funnels with bad pugs and then complains. If a full warband can't wipe a 12man than they are bad, and they shouldn't be rewarded for being bad by just having more numbers. Best part of this game is to gank people who think that their numbers matter.

[Freemind]

I mean...again this is the same crying we are doing about cities on Order and we were told to get better, get more organised, take meta classes, etc. We did that and now we're doing more solid on cities (aside from the neccessary sacrifice of few soloq cities with 12 engies, etc).

Get more ranged dps into your forts, leave the melee deathball to cities. Get siege meta setup. When I as a healer don't even have to heal hard when you're preparing for the pushes cause there is no ranged AoE, you're doing something wrong.

Today we lost Shining Way against determined VII. wb pushing - people actually were getting pressured by AoE on the inside and it was harder than usual to keep people up. Do more of that.

I see what you mean. But the destru (edit: Ranged aoe) aoe is not even close to as strong as Order ones, so it's not that simple. Destrus biggest strenght lies in our melee. As orders biggest strenght lies in ranged.
Also the issue of you having more ranged classes than we do.
Our Squig herder has still, months later, not gotten our rework. So we're even lacking a ranged dps.

Besides the suggestions im adding is not just to nerf order. Aoe overall is stupidly strong and the only meta right now.
A mmorpg stays healthy by meta changes. Stuff needs to change.
I think this healthy dose of aoe control is necessary.

[Freemind]

And yes, limiting aoe number of targets is a good thing. And maybe adjust that range a little. You have so many classes with ranged aoe, why would it be a worry to you? You still will be able to nook plenty of targets while it will help with some pushes rather than just melting at the door step. Also a comment like smaller groups need a tool to fight a zerg is a little to much. You are basically describing a tool you have to take on much larger groups with small numbers. Does not seam like a well balanced scenario.

Alright didn't realize you're just a zergling who pushes funnels with bad pugs and then complains. If a full warband can't wipe a 12man than they are bad, and they shouldn't be rewarded for being bad by just having more numbers. Best part of this game is to gank people who think that their numbers matter.

I've run plenty of 12, 18, 24 premade wbs. And you can play clever and dealing with outnumbering, without using aoe spams.
Hell i was with Davjen in Praag, we took on 1 wb and a half by using the surroundings to lure them into a chokepoint. Thats how you deal with "zergs."
Not just by out aoeing them. That sounds very lack of skill if anything.
You strike hard on their weak points, this is where a single target buff could totally work in a smaller groups favor.

Lower aoe dmg, stronger single target could make it much easier for organised warbands or groups to strike said weakpoint, get the healers dead, work towards dps etc.
While trying to keep your own weak point out of harms way.

[TreefAM]

I've run plenty of 12, 18, 24 premade wbs. And you can play clever and dealing with outnumbering, without using aoe spams.
Hell i was with Davjen in Praag, we took on 1 wb and a half by using the surroundings to lure them into a chokepoint. Thats how you deal with "zergs."
Not just by out aoeing them. That sounds very lack of skill if anything.
You strike hard on their weak points, this is where a single target buff could totally work in a smaller groups favor.

Lower aoe dmg, stronger single target could make it much easier for organised warbands or groups to strike said weakpoint, get the healers dead, work towards dps etc.
While trying to keep your own weak point out of harms way.

Oh please, you were aoeing that choke, without aoe that choke you were holding would have pushed through you. Obviously you can't just aoe spam a bigger group whenever since they'll just blob over you. Why don't you go and run a full ST warband and see how it will work out. What are you going to do with stronger ST dmg vs a zerg, you can kill 2-3 people and then what?
It's good to pretend all about good ST focus and all that, but AOE is still king, and lower aoe, you promote zerging.