Please Fix AOE

[hammerhead]

6 months ago Destro said that the Order needed an organize. I was yesterday at 2 of 4 forts (if count EU time 1 in the morning). I have been on them on two different undressed characters no higher than 60 rr. And I saw enough of the mighty two-handed Borks and the Chosen with in complete Sov. Now, when it is not possible to hide behind an essentially buggy ability, it's time for you to return your own phrase, adapt and overcome.

no offense

[farng84]

I agree that the balance needs to happen in mDPS too, I'm not just whining about ranged being OP - it's absolutely right that both needed balance. However now that order are winning more cities, because they're taking 4 slayers and at least competing in melee range, there needs to be a balance at ranged, and there simply isn't right now.

So after 6 months of Order being farmed at City they were forced to roll more City friendly classes in order to compete. Now Des are having problems at Forts instead of doing the same you expect the Dev's to come fix it for you.

I'm sorry mate, I'm confused.
No chances were made to bring more balance to cities? and isn't it also the common defence regarding slayer bomb that there is not enough of them? There were plenty of WL from before so I'm not sure which city friendly classes you refer to, unless it is WH, the only one missing from the list.

6 months ago Destro said that the Order needed an organize. I was yesterday at 2 of 4 forts (if count EU time 1 in the morning). I have been on them on two different undressed characters no higher than 60 rr. And I saw enough of the mighty two-handed Borks and the Chosen with in complete Sov. Now, when it is not possible to hide behind an essentially buggy ability, it's time for you to return your own phrase, adapt and overcome.

no offense

@ Hammerhead

It was not considered acceptable answer, order complained further. Various balance changes (including related and unrelated) were made.
Destro is now complaining about one issue, why would the same answer you were given before (one which was not valid) be valid now?

It is offensive if you think destro should accept an answer that was not good for you.
P.S. if no changes were made I would consider the answer valid on both sides (in my opinion it is true that order would have always had equal chances in cities with proper wb composition and that destro would have better chances in forts/keep with proper rdps pressure, that was always obvious to me)

[hammerhead]

@ Hammerhead

It was not considered acceptable answer, order complained further. Various balance changes (including related and unrelated) were made.
Destro is now complaining about one issue, why would the same answer you were given before (one which was not valid) be valid now?

It is offensive if you think destro should accept an answer that was not good for you.
P.S. if no changes were made I would consider the answer valid on both sides (in my opinion it is true that order would have always had equal chances in cities with proper wb composition and that destro would have better chances in forts/keep with proper rdps pressure, that was always obvious to me)

Because it was already explained above in the text that this is a players issue. If you change the proportions of destruction classes towards Magus/Sorc, then the Order will came to keep door only in the form of compactly folded coffins.
And the answer is very simple. You want the AOE nerf not because of the imbalance between the factions (because in this part it is minimal), but because you want to make the game (much) easier by turning it into an Farmhammer Online as it was in august (it's good that I took a break then) ...
This is a complex problem that will affect all aspects of the game where you want (because of your whims) to find a simple solution.
You had a time of 6 months to prevent the developers from figuring out how to make the path to the Sovereign as difficult as possible (because this is a Sovereign and not a rag for the first vendor on the road). The one who did not have time was late.

And by the way, one vulnerability remained. The most resourceful (rather assiduous) take Altdorf at night when most of the defenders are sleeping peacefully and dreaming about beautiful elves. And such endurance is rewarded and no one will take away from you the Sovereign you deserve at any cost.

[Gurf]

I agree that the balance needs to happen in mDPS too, I'm not just whining about ranged being OP - it's absolutely right that both needed balance. However now that order are winning more cities, because they're taking 4 slayers and at least competing in melee range, there needs to be a balance at ranged, and there simply isn't right now.

So after 6 months of Order being farmed at City they were forced to roll more City friendly classes in order to compete. Now Des are having problems at Forts instead of doing the same you expect the Dev's to come fix it for you.

I'm sorry mate, I'm confused.
No chances were made to bring more balance to cities? and isn't it also the common defence regarding slayer bomb that there is not enough of them? There were plenty of WL from before so I'm not sure which city friendly classes you refer to, unless it is WH, the only one missing from the list.

An overall change was made to morale, which was around 6 months ago, yet after the changes Des still won 75% of City because City favours melee train, also they had been farming City for months and had much more full Sov toons/warbands, so big gear gap. After getting bored of losing so much many Order people put their Engi, SW, AM, WH, IB on the shelf and rolled other classes, I know plenty of players who stopped bringing those to City and those that do often all end up in the same pug warband. The change to getting Sov in bags in rvr enabled the gear gap to close a bit and now Order is able to win more because they play more classes suited to City. Its not like over night after the morale change Order suddenly won 50% of City, that has only happened in recent weeks and still only happened a couple of times in EU Prime in total and probably the only reason that it is relatively close is that some Des guilds aren't playing as much any more.

[farng84]

@ Hammerhead

It was not considered acceptable answer, order complained further. Various balance changes (including related and unrelated) were made.
Destro is now complaining about one issue, why would the same answer you were given before (one which was not valid) be valid now?

It is offensive if you think destro should accept an answer that was not good for you.
P.S. if no changes were made I would consider the answer valid on both sides (in my opinion it is true that order would have always had equal chances in cities with proper wb composition and that destro would have better chances in forts/keep with proper rdps pressure, that was always obvious to me)

Because it was already explained above in the text that this is a players issue. If you change the proportions of destruction classes towards Magus/Sorc, then the Order will came to keep door only in the form of compactly folded coffins.
And the answer is very simple. You want the AOE nerf not because of the imbalance between the factions (because in this part it is minimal), but because you want to make the game (much) easier by turning it into an Farmhammer Online as it was in august (it's good that I took a break then) ...
This is a complex problem that will affect all aspects of the game where you want (because of your whims) to find a simple solution.
You had a time of 6 months to prevent the developers from figuring out how to make the path to the Sovereign as difficult as possible (because this is a Sovereign and not a rag for the first vendor on the road). The one who did not have time was late.

And by the way, one vulnerability remained. The most resourceful (rather assiduous) take Altdorf at night when most of the defenders are sleeping peacefully and dreaming about beautiful elves. And such endurance is rewarded and no one will take away from you the Sovereign you deserve at any cost.

so you are saying that overall, it was correct/good to balance game in city as it was not in order favour but it would be wrong to do the same on fort/keep as it would favour destro.
Please note that the point for city and fort are one and the same, with order not bringing enough melee in city and destro not bringing enough ranged in keeps/forts (as also stated in the post you quoted).
While I would agree with you if you said it was a player problem in both cases I cannot agree with your point as it is; it lacks any resemblance of balance. Changes were made to better balance and partially it was due to Order's complaint about city, now destro is expecting the same. You might said that your (Order faction) achievement opened Pandora's box.

Yes, indeed people take empty forts overnight (EU time) preventing me from participating Alt siege (juicy 5*)... that's an issue or realm population during that time and sad as there is no balanced battle.
I doubt anybody dreams of warhammer's elves tho, they are really ugly (unless they have some good war related hentai I'm not aware of, lol)

[emiliorv]

PS: If you are dying to SW then you are just bad. Its still a garbage class played by legolad wannabes doing sad damage compared to Slayer/BW/WL.

Maybe you are right...but if you have 10+ legolas wannabes stacking aoe dots and you add another 10+engies stacking another aoe dots you finally got a heavy constant pressure...1 by 1 not much dps, but too much dot stacking is enough to pressure healers.

[farng84]

So after 6 months of Order being farmed at City they were forced to roll more City friendly classes in order to compete. Now Des are having problems at Forts instead of doing the same you expect the Dev's to come fix it for you.

I'm sorry mate, I'm confused.
No chances were made to bring more balance to cities? and isn't it also the common defence regarding slayer bomb that there is not enough of them? There were plenty of WL from before so I'm not sure which city friendly classes you refer to, unless it is WH, the only one missing from the list.

An overall change was made to morale, which was around 6 months ago, yet after the changes Des still won 75% of City because City favours melee train, also they had been farming City for months and had much more full Sov toons/warbands, so big gear gap. After getting bored of losing so much many Order people put their Engi, SW, AM, WH, IB on the shelf and rolled other classes, I know plenty of players who stopped bringing those to City and those that do often all end up in the same pug warband. The change to getting Sov in bags in rvr enabled the gear gap to close a bit and now Order is able to win more because they play more classes suited to City. Its not like over night after the morale change Order suddenly won 50% of City, that has only happened in recent weeks and still only happened a couple of times in EU Prime in total and probably the only reason that it is relatively close is that some Des guilds aren't playing as much any more.

So you are saying that yes, changes (including but not limited to morale change) were made to improve the balance. And that some players (which mainly play in organised wbs I would add) rerolled to fill the more advantageous composition for city (adding more slayers to the mix and bringing the right amount of tanks I'd say). Both of these contributed to increase order win rate in city (at least for those instances where organised and properly made wb participated), but it might not be enough to win city overall (as other wbs are pugs with 70% engi).
Thanks for confirming all of the points I made

[hammerhead]

so you are saying that overall, it was correct/good to balance game in city as it was not in order favour but it would be wrong to do the same on fort/keep as it would favour destro.
Please note that the point for city and fort are one and the same, with order not bringing enough melee in city and destro not bringing enough ranged in keeps/forts (as also stated in the post you quoted).
While I would agree with you if you said it was a player problem in both cases I cannot agree with your point as it is; it lacks any resemblance of balance. Changes were made to better balance and partially it was due to Order's complaint about city, now destro is expecting the same. You might said that your (Order faction) achievement opened Pandora's box.

I want to say that this is the look of a person standing in front of a hill. He does not see anything behind him and gets confused in conjectures. You think that in the form in which the project is, this is its kind of final stage, forgetting with what limited resources this is all done. The developers gave a post about the morale changes (a year or more ago) and the players then (myself included) showed themselves not restrained and the developers are now very careful with laying out plans for the future. That I think is very correct.
Being unfamiliar, but having a general idea about the development of any projects, I think there is a long board with all the changes and futures that should appear, including the moral play, which should be a decisive factor in long battles. Unfortunately, inherited from the Mythics in the current version of the game, we received a significant superiority of one faction in this aspect. I want to believe that someday the morale will return in an updated quality, balanced for both factions with changes in AOE. And if you looked at my posts, then I am a supporter of the original AoE cap.
And I definitely don't believe that this or that change in the project arises from the whining of one of the parties. Just because you would never see the game even in this form where one faction dominates one game activity and the other in another.

Yes, indeed people take empty forts overnight (EU time) preventing me from participating Alt siege (juicy 5*)... that's an issue or realm population during that time and sad as there is no balanced battle.
I doubt anybody dreams of warhammer's elves tho, they are really ugly (unless they have some good war related hentai I'm not aware of, lol)

Well, personally, at night I dream of pulling the skin on my shield of every killed shaman from my grudge book. But, the old dwarf also dreams of dwarves. And at least unlike my green-skinned opponents, we have them. LOL

[Lorsten]

one faction dominates one game activity and the other in another.

I'm sorry to ask, what game activity destro is dominating? Apart from zerging middle zones with x2 numbers.
Order complained about destro dominating city, and got their tweaks, so WR became close to 50% nowdays.
Did order became more organized? No, devs just nerfed destro's overperforming morale plays, added morale drain to SW, tweaked their ranged aoe (like order needed ranged aoe buff...facepalm)
So now destro is beaten hard in forts/keeps, with ~20% WR at best due to overperforming ranged AOE on Order. Ppl on destro just stay afk at forts after 1 push, just like order did on cities.

[hammerhead]

I'm sorry to ask, what game activity destro is dominating? Apart from zerging middle zones with x2 numbers.

To save text, it is easier to list which one it does not dominate. Or is it something personal? Are you playing as a shaman? Or Chosen who does not part with his 2h weapon even in the city and wants the zerg to drag him through all activities? Then you don't have to apologize.