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Fort Tracker One Week In

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franzjaeger
Posts: 47

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#211 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:30 am

Rekoom wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:01 am The issue with adapting Destro comps to use more rDPS is that Order rDPS outbombs Destro's in the first place which is the reason why... Order has more rDPS and Destro has more melee to.... Counter Order rDPS.

So now Order has superior mDPS ball (as Sybreal rightly pointed out) AND rDPS (the reason why Order rDPS is overpopulated) and Heals (KotBS + WP).

True. I feel like all the people who just repeats "destro should just get more rDPS lol" forgets the fact that Order rDPS beats Destro rDPS in pretty much any RvR setting due to simply being stronger AoE classes. So even if we do show up with more rDPS we're still outmatched and have even less mDPS to push with. SW has a ranged AoE spec but SH's AoE spec is melee so right off the bat we have one less viable rDPS to bring to fort, everyone knows BW > Sorc for autobombing, Magus has a bad rep for some reason but even disregarding that I don't think anyone would put it as a clear choice above Engie. Not much incentive for destro to roll rDPS for forts.

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Gurf
Posts: 519

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#212 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:43 am

franzjaeger wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:30 am
Rekoom wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:01 am The issue with adapting Destro comps to use more rDPS is that Order rDPS outbombs Destro's in the first place which is the reason why... Order has more rDPS and Destro has more melee to.... Counter Order rDPS.

So now Order has superior mDPS ball (as Sybreal rightly pointed out) AND rDPS (the reason why Order rDPS is overpopulated) and Heals (KotBS + WP).

True. I feel like all the people who just repeats "destro should just get more rDPS lol" forgets the fact that Order rDPS beats Destro rDPS in pretty much any RvR setting due to simply being stronger AoE classes. So even if we do show up with more rDPS we're still outmatched and have even less mDPS to push with. SW has a ranged AoE spec but SH's AoE spec is melee so right off the bat we have one less viable rDPS to bring to fort, everyone knows BW > Sorc for autobombing, Magus has a bad rep for some reason but even disregarding that I don't think anyone would put it as a clear choice above Engie. Not much incentive for destro to roll rDPS for forts.
You are outmatched if you are in open field and have rdps vs rdps, but in Fort, especially defence it isn't like that because you can stand and free cast, the damage a Sorc and Magus can put out when free casting is massive, so obviously bringing more rdps to Fort and keep defence is going to dramatically increase your win rate.

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Schweedy
Posts: 61

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#213 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:46 am

Spoiler:
franzjaeger wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:30 am
Rekoom wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:01 am The issue with adapting Destro comps to use more rDPS is that Order rDPS outbombs Destro's in the first place which is the reason why... Order has more rDPS and Destro has more melee to.... Counter Order rDPS.

So now Order has superior mDPS ball (as Sybreal rightly pointed out) AND rDPS (the reason why Order rDPS is overpopulated) and Heals (KotBS + WP).
everyone knows BW > Sorc for autobombing, Magus has a bad rep for some reason but even disregarding that I don't think anyone would put it as a clear choice above Engie. Not much incentive for destro to roll rDPS for forts.
1. Just on morales alone. M4s on the Sorceress are highly questionable for ORvR. All 3 of them, while BW M4s are amazing (all 3 of them) for ORvR. Even Firewall with its 65ft range. There really is nothing comparable for Destro Range Morales. Food for thought.

2. Besides the fact that only Squig Herder has access to Pierce Defenses (like the SW/Engi do), the Magus DoT/Direct Mastery Crit Tactics are all bugged. All Damage-over-time abilities and channels do not take crit from tactics (Havok or Changing Crit Tactic). Not that Magus AoE DoTs/Channels make or break sieges, but every little bit counts no?


Those are the 2 current discrepancies I have noticed, without even touching rSH, which most agree need some loving.
RP 70/AM 64
ZEAL 81/SHAM 66/DOK 60

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farng84
Posts: 158

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#214 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:00 am

Schweedy wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:46 am
2. Besides the fact that only Squig Herder has access to Pierce Defenses (like the SW/Engi do), the Magus DoT/Direct Mastery Crit Tactics are all bugged. All Damage-over-time abilities and channels do not take crit from tactics (Havok or Changing Crit Tactic). Not that Magus AoE DoTs/Channels make or break sieges, but every little bit counts no?[/color]
Lol, if you now tell me that even demonic reach is bugged 3 of the 4 tactics I was using in fort defence were just empty slots...One would expect that if the tactic is currently available it works. It would have been nice to know :D

emiliorv
Posts: 1341

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#215 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:41 am

Schweedy wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:46 am
Spoiler:
franzjaeger wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:30 am
Rekoom wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:01 am The issue with adapting Destro comps to use more rDPS is that Order rDPS outbombs Destro's in the first place which is the reason why... Order has more rDPS and Destro has more melee to.... Counter Order rDPS.

So now Order has superior mDPS ball (as Sybreal rightly pointed out) AND rDPS (the reason why Order rDPS is overpopulated) and Heals (KotBS + WP).
everyone knows BW > Sorc for autobombing, Magus has a bad rep for some reason but even disregarding that I don't think anyone would put it as a clear choice above Engie. Not much incentive for destro to roll rDPS for forts.
1. Just on morales alone. M4s on the Sorceress are highly questionable for ORvR. All 3 of them, while BW M4s are amazing (all 3 of them) for ORvR. Even Firewall with its 65ft range. There really is nothing comparable for Destro Range Morales. Food for thought.https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16546

2. Besides the fact that only Squig Herder has access to Pierce Defenses (like the SW/Engi do), the Magus DoT/Direct Mastery Crit Tactics are all bugged. All Damage-over-time abilities and channels do not take crit from tactics (Havok or Changing Crit Tactic). Not that Magus AoE DoTs/Channels make or break sieges, but every little bit counts no?


Those are the 2 current discrepancies I have noticed, without even touching rSH, which most agree need some loving.


Magus dissolving Mist unable to crit (ticket opened in april) while Napalm crits happen:
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16586
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16954

Magus +% crit tactics (havoc/changing) bugged:
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/14898
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/17930

Sorc-Shattered Shadows fail to hit if initial target block/disrupt:
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16809
also affect: Black Horror/Shadow Knives/GoN (probably some more aoe spells from magus and other Order casters i said the ones confirmed on ticket)

How dare Destro not use this aoe killing machines on forts?

Rapzel
Posts: 452

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#216 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:24 pm

nuadarstark wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:06 pm
Rapzel wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:37 pm Order has been zerging since March stop lying, order zerged so hard they reset campaign several times before city was unlocked, a feat unheard by destro. I geared up my ib in a couple of weeks of casual play just running with the Zerg, while destro just used to be better to sit and wait for city push and gear through city wins, defense changed that and all of the sudden destro started going out in the lakes just to get royals, but order is still zerging to IC on a daily basis.
Oh get out with that. We zerged for 1 month in summer hard, and that was because we literally made a near server-wide alliance that had nearly everyone of note aside from Bene and CNTK and coordinated up to 6 WBs in prime time. Alliance that has been disbanded for 2 months btw. And we did that cause we got sick of getting zerged by destro and because we wanted to get better after destros argument for us loosing cities was "get organised".

Now IC gets pushed daily because destro has low presence in NA and cause they get broken by organised Order (with generaly lower numbers online) in EU prime time and log off. People also don't have the fight in them anymore, which is why you see those massive swings from one side to the other when a siege or fort gets defended or push broken.
Okay so massively outnumbering the other faction outside of EU primetime (time span usually between 3-4 hrs) is not Zerging?
Does it need to be Open WBs for you to count as Zerg galore, or what are the prerequisites? (mines 80% AAO because that's when it becomes difficult to defend a keep even with a premade 24 man).
Magically all the players just accidentally rerolled to Order at the same moment, or why do you think the numbers are skewered outside of EU prime time?
My theory here is that people push city and forts on the faction who meets less resistance and then relog to the characters they want to gear up in city.

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Aethilmar
Posts: 755

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#217 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:35 pm

emiliorv wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:41 am
Schweedy wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:46 am
Spoiler:
franzjaeger wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:30 am
everyone knows BW > Sorc for autobombing, Magus has a bad rep for some reason but even disregarding that I don't think anyone would put it as a clear choice above Engie. Not much incentive for destro to roll rDPS for forts.
1. Just on morales alone. M4s on the Sorceress are highly questionable for ORvR. All 3 of them, while BW M4s are amazing (all 3 of them) for ORvR. Even Firewall with its 65ft range. There really is nothing comparable for Destro Range Morales. Food for thought.https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16546

2. Besides the fact that only Squig Herder has access to Pierce Defenses (like the SW/Engi do), the Magus DoT/Direct Mastery Crit Tactics are all bugged. All Damage-over-time abilities and channels do not take crit from tactics (Havok or Changing Crit Tactic). Not that Magus AoE DoTs/Channels make or break sieges, but every little bit counts no?


Those are the 2 current discrepancies I have noticed, without even touching rSH, which most agree need some loving.


Magus dissolving Mist unable to crit (ticket opened in april) while Napalm crits happen:
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16586
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16954

Magus +% crit tactics (havoc/changing) bugged:
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/14898
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/17930

Sorc-Shattered Shadows fail to hit if initial target block/disrupt:
https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/16809
also affect: Black Horror/Shadow Knives/GoN (probably some more aoe spells from magus and other Order casters i said the ones confirmed on ticket)

How dare Destro not use this aoe killing machines on forts?
This is probably one of the more useful things out of this thread. If they are working differently compared to Engie tactics then either they need to be brought up to Engie or Engie needs to be normalized down to Magus. I would expect them to be additive. Either way, those seem like pretty major discrepancies to be glossing over.

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Naelar
Posts: 296

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#218 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:08 pm

Rapzel wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:24 pm
nuadarstark wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:06 pm
Rapzel wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:37 pm Order has been zerging since March stop lying, order zerged so hard they reset campaign several times before city was unlocked, a feat unheard by destro. I geared up my ib in a couple of weeks of casual play just running with the Zerg, while destro just used to be better to sit and wait for city push and gear through city wins, defense changed that and all of the sudden destro started going out in the lakes just to get royals, but order is still zerging to IC on a daily basis.
Oh get out with that. We zerged for 1 month in summer hard, and that was because we literally made a near server-wide alliance that had nearly everyone of note aside from Bene and CNTK and coordinated up to 6 WBs in prime time. Alliance that has been disbanded for 2 months btw. And we did that cause we got sick of getting zerged by destro and because we wanted to get better after destros argument for us loosing cities was "get organised".

Now IC gets pushed daily because destro has low presence in NA and cause they get broken by organised Order (with generaly lower numbers online) in EU prime time and log off. People also don't have the fight in them anymore, which is why you see those massive swings from one side to the other when a siege or fort gets defended or push broken.
Okay so massively outnumbering the other faction outside of EU primetime (time span usually between 3-4 hrs) is not Zerging?
Does it need to be Open WBs for you to count as Zerg galore, or what are the prerequisites? (mines 80% AAO because that's when it becomes difficult to defend a keep even with a premade 24 man).
Magically all the players just accidentally rerolled to Order at the same moment, or why do you think the numbers are skewered outside of EU prime time?
My theory here is that people push city and forts on the faction who meets less resistance and then relog to the characters they want to gear up in city.
Wen Destro has the numbers advantage, it's a zerg. When Order does, it's 'realm pride'.

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emiliorv
Posts: 1341

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#219 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:10 pm

Is this data collecting still going?? lets see how is going after the today´s patch, now that engi have access to a 100% uptime AoE debuff for +50% castime....good luck to the destro who remain being farmed on forts.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=42102

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zij83
Posts: 129

Re: Fort Tracker One Week In

Post#220 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:08 pm

emiliorv wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:10 pm Is this data collecting still going?? lets see how is going after the today´s patch, now that engi have access to a 100% uptime AoE debuff for +50% castime....good luck to the destro who remain being farmed on forts.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=42102
It is still going and to your point in the Reikwald 30 mins ago I was repeatedly farmed by engineers that we had no way to get to. So yeah, I'd say its going to have an impact. Especially in Reikwald since the edge of the fort is so close to all the BOs. They were able to safely stay in the keep and just blast people. Destro doesn't have one fort where that's possible because all of the BOs are so far away (and down the hill) from the fort.

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