Patch Notes 05/11/2020

[Sundowner]

An other way to put it into perspective, I assume most slayers are around 30% critchance +-. This debuff would strip them down to 5%. A monstro mara build would strive to get 50%critchance, and this tactic alone would reduce a critchance-stacking build to half? too potent.

Most Slayers aren't anywhere near 30% Crit, even the rr85+ ones here are unlikely to be that high, more like 15%

I got 53% on SW, and thats without even bothering with Sentinel. Around 65% in case of "baby" BW in Onslaught.
Add to it +5% from DT and +10% from OS, assuming not playing with random pugs... so it would be 68% for SW and 80% in case of BW, reducing it by 25% won't hurt as much...

Yeah order has only 2 dps sw and bw

[Orgruk]

Running full possible crit build on my WE (2x sent, 5 sov, 2x vanq, 4% crit sent talisman, 2% crit ranked event slot) I hit 40% crit - 45% if I would use liniment...

And this would be the highest base crit (not counting career mechanics, debuffs etc) you can get on a character...

I'd just spec a WH to full melee power and ignore crit if I had to fight any Chosens ever lol

Wish I could go that high crit on my Choppa ... but need that damn armor pen.

[Twick]

Guess all that destro crying worked.

Good god.

[Rydiak]

Oof, wow. -25% crit is way too strong for a single tactic slot (better than 4 ranks of Futile Strikes, or 45 renown rank points). This effect should be no higher than 15% max, because it does involve building specifically for (e.g. a Chosen with a high chance to be crit and low avoidance), but it is also a passive proc meaning it should be weaker than single-target abilities that also debuff crit chance.

[Gurf]

An other way to put it into perspective, I assume most slayers are around 30% critchance +-. This debuff would strip them down to 5%. A monstro mara build would strive to get 50%critchance, and this tactic alone would reduce a critchance-stacking build to half? too potent.

Most Slayers aren't anywhere near 30% Crit, even the rr85+ ones here are unlikely to be that high, more like 15%

I got 53% on SW, and thats without even bothering with Sentinel. Around 65% in case of "baby" BW in Onslaught.
Add to it +5% from DT and +10% from OS, assuming not playing with random pugs... so it would be 68% for SW and 80% in case of BW, reducing it by 25% won't hurt as much...

You can see the Slayers in the Construct thread and ask players like Ravezaar and Toshutkidup high rr Slayers are usually running between 11-15% crit as they have to invest their renown into WS

So what you are saying is that this change will probably hit Order mdps harder than the ranged.... great

[Charon]

About chosen changes i will just copy paste my post from the past ......

Spoiler:

Wait, your argument against long form reasoning for balance changes is because different people respond to different parts of a long list of topics?

But since you made the assertion, what did I misrepresent here;
-snipping big image-

Just to be clear because keyboard warriors LOVE to misrepresent my words taken out of context:

-Natherul wanted to nerf Runefang
-I was opposed to nerfing Runefang because Runefang was very heavily in knight's class identity
-Natherul was adamant on nerfing Runefang, and not giving Chosens an equal nerf - because Chosen was 'in a bad spot' according to him.
-I made the point of, "Well, if you're nerfing Runefang to the same scaling as Daemonclaw, why not mirror them instead as Knight and Chosen are in a similar spot in terms of damage?" which lead to, "No; Knights are too OP and need tuned down."
-There was a 3 hour back and forth about nerfing Runefang and such; eventually, we decided on Mighty Soul as baseline, and the Chosen Mirror of Daemonclaw having Str/WS and Knight having Ini/WP.

In hindsight, I really would have liked this:
-Revert the Mighty Soul tactic changes, revert the knight elemental damage ability changes
-Restore Chosen's old defensive tactic (10% reduced chance to be crit tactic? I think it was)
-Mirror old Runefang with Daemonclaw, but in different trees like they were before (Chosen Daemonclaw in 2h tree, Knight MS in Utility tree, Runefang Baseline, Chosen MS-like ability removed)

and that's it. I don't want too get into any discussion beyond that, and it's clear that Knight and Chosen players are not happy with this change, but that's what I *really* wanted to begin with.

For the record, I am against too much functionality changes. I think those kind of changes are piss-poor, and small incremental value changes serve us much better long-term. New abilities should be introduced only on gear sets in the form of procs or raw stats, and general balance has been fine for quite some time and I remain adamant in keeping it the way it is.

I am pretty sure the team as well is getting sick of wasting time placating specific groups of people because they think something is OP and they think it's unfair the opposite faction has something, and then changing it so the opposite side has something and ending up getting entire swaths of people upset in return, repeating the cycle.

In my opinion, the next round of changes, if any, should be aimed at reverting Knights/Chosens, then Ranged SH, then 2H Choppa / 2H Slayer plus a re-tune of Choppa's standard 1h AOE abilities versus the output of Slayer 1h AOE abilities, followed by AM/Shaman mechanic changes, and that's it. Maybe something to solve the fact that WH triggers their bullets on finishers only which leads to WE having a massive advantage in that field. Those are probably the only classes that need touched, though. Beyond that? I don't agree much else needs adjusting beyond small damage values. Nothing else should be massively sweeping like we have been doing to Knight/Chosen class identity over the last 2 years.

We've already killed every stupidly OP meta mechanic beyond that, and everything else is pretty much down to rock-paper-scissors mechanics at this point, and very few classes are left without a counter of some sorts.

about the runefang and crippling strike.
in my memory, crippling strike was the first attempt to fix this OP class.
it's in offensive tree. doing -25% dmg reduction if u critically hit.
you go offensive all you want, and huge dmg reduction follows.
synergy with aoe, cd decrease, crit buff/debuff.
you know slashing blade and whirling axe, imagine 4k armor doing it as applying dmg reduction too.
back in that era, tactic wasn't able to cleans, iirc.

it was signature and identity of the class. and OP af.
after first attempt, it's value reduced to 10%. then crit buff then something else to daemonclaw.
IMO, defense buff in offense tree was the problem at first place.
balance seems at almost end. but i see reverting discussion.
plz reconsider.

for runefang, problem is same. passively applying OP buffs.
consider their mechanic : aura. do you see the pattern? passive play.
use 1 skill and everything is done automatically. offense+defense

passive play could be one of style. though passively at top effective, that's problem.
plz don't bring them back.
i think passively at mediocre effect, to increase performance you need extra input.
just my 2cent.

additionality - removal of CS was conected or rather balanced by BO/SM and BG changes. Chosen pasive buff/debuff play was nerfed while it st dmg was masivelly increased (st off Chosen outdmgs st off SM + has it cc utilities). Additionality BO got WAAAGH (so op cooldawn decreaser wich destro never had at live) and BG path of Malice rework, which made both BO and BG best offensive rvr tanks in the game. SM got rather inferior version of CS (RT tc) with masive drawbacks and lost it 2-end spirit debuff. This trade off made SM somehow usefull as snb tank while decresed his dmg (at life SM was worst tank in the game...realy) but also reinforced destro tanks dominance over order tanks atleast in rvr/wb play. So if anyone want give Chosen CS or rather RT version again should also implement nerf to BG and BO utilities and Chosen dmg potential.

I dont think those changes are for now usefull for anyone..
[/quote]

So what now BO/BG nerf to balance the CS come back ??? Knigh self dmg buff to the class that does not provide any dmg will not justified additon of next strong aoe debuff for destro .......no comments

[M0rw47h]

Most Slayers aren't anywhere near 30% Crit, even the rr85+ ones here are unlikely to be that high, more like 15%

I got 53% on SW, and thats without even bothering with Sentinel. Around 65% in case of "baby" BW in Onslaught.
Add to it +5% from DT and +10% from OS, assuming not playing with random pugs... so it would be 68% for SW and 80% in case of BW, reducing it by 25% won't hurt as much...

You can see the Slayers in the Construct thread and ask players like Ravezaar and Toshutkidup high rr Slayers are usually running between 11-15% crit as they have to invest their renown into WS

So what you are saying is that this change will probably hit Order mdps harder than the ranged.... great

Slayers are the most overperforming class in the game, so its fine.

[vanbuinen77]

Great job devs!

[Gurf]

I got 53% on SW, and thats without even bothering with Sentinel. Around 65% in case of "baby" BW in Onslaught.
Add to it +5% from DT and +10% from OS, assuming not playing with random pugs... so it would be 68% for SW and 80% in case of BW, reducing it by 25% won't hurt as much...

You can see the Slayers in the Construct thread and ask players like Ravezaar and Toshutkidup high rr Slayers are usually running between 11-15% crit as they have to invest their renown into WS

So what you are saying is that this change will probably hit Order mdps harder than the ranged.... great

Slayers are the most overperforming class in the game, so its fine.

It affects all classes, basically Order can't crit with mdps or tanks any more

[Fenris78]

It's already too easy to spec anticrit, like :
30pts into futile strike = -15% crit
30pts into crit chances = +9% crit chances
You need 60% more renown points to overcome the malus of Futile Strike (4 levels are +14% and -24% respectively), so anticrit are already more potent than chances to crit.

Now the chosen tactic is :
1. A technically 45 renown points bonus for you
2. A technically 75 renown points malus for everyone who crits you (the value needed to get a +25% crit chances is that was possible).

It literally beyond gamebreaking, meaning one chosen can debuff all AoE from mdps to rdps PASSIVELY with ONE TACTIC.
Not to mention all tactics and class mechanics that rely on crit chances are also gimped down big times... This is really beyond gamebreaking (see Wam posts, and he plays Destro too).

IF you want to balance, why not :
- Give same change to KotBS as well ?
- Give anti-detaunt tactic to both classes since they are supposed to be MIRRORS ?
- Give the chosen opposite of Dirty tricks ; "Critting enemy will buff your group, except you, for a -5% chance to be crit for 10s". That would be fair and the exact counter to matching tactic ?

Not rocket science to figure ways of balancing things around, but sadly I'm not a dev... :/