[SM] [Warlord] Evasion and Sword Master are not friends

[Kyraith]

For Tanks, the 7 piece Warlord bonus is:

Evasion - On being hit, 10% chance to detaunt target. This lasts for 5 seconds and is removed if you damage the target.

This sounds awesome in theory, and there are a lot of 2H tanks that use this to great effect to be more durable than the DPS sov armor (filling the role of a 2H guard tank). This bonus ability is obviously not equal from tank to tank (as expected), but on SMs it has almost 0 benefit unless you refuse to use some of the classes core abilities.

• Wrath of Hoeth is a must have for reducing spirit (cast every 20 secs) and up-keeping the Blessing of Hoeth (cast every 10 secs)
• For 2 Handers, Wall of Darting Steel has a damage reflection effect that removes the detaunt off everyone attacking you pretty much every other attack
• For Shield Masters, Crushing Advance is also an AoE that provides a significant defensive buff (cast every 20 secs) and an AoE interrupt (cast every 10 secs)...if you are using this AND Wrath of Hoeth, you are basically AOEing every 5 seconds

I realize that the goal is not to have every bonus on every piece of armor benefit every single class, but it would be nice to have more synergy between a 7 piece royal armor set bonus and the classes’ core ability rotation. I am not suggesting a change to Evasion or the specific Abilities in question, but perhaps there is reason to consider a change to the SM Warlord’s 7 piece bonus? Perhaps to something else that does benefit the SM? Perhaps mitigation on hit/defense? I don’t know. Just identifying a problem, don’t have a specific solution.

Thanks for listening! Feedback and thoughts appreciated!

[nuadarstark]

Yeah I always always a bit confused by the set being favoured by so many SMs. Even in a ST party in a city, you'll still be doing AoE with WoH to debuff resists of the enemies around, so you end up breaking it a ton. I'm mainly S&B, so I just in the end ignored it for more block from the main sov and more offensive stats from the offspec sov.

[anarchypark]

5sec is 2~3 gcd.
you can't stop aoe for 2 gcd?
watch buffhead on WE,choppa,mara and delay woh for at least once.
it's kinda random on mdps but mitigating few hundreds.

i think it proc on rdps too.
maybe that's the goal

[Sulorie]

Why you spam spirit resist debuff, when you have no rdps with spirit dmg in warband?

2h BG spam Crimson Death and block/parry reduction debuff too, both aoe, but warlord is still the most reliable armor set for that spec and warband play.

[Kyraith]

Why you spam spirit resist debuff, when you have no rdps with spirit dmg in warband?

2h BG spam Crimson Death and block/parry reduction debuff too, both aoe, but warlord is still the most reliable armor set for that spec and warband play.

Spirit debuff is very beneficial to the Grace WP in particular, WHs enjoy it as well. I think your points on the BG are very valid from a teamwork perspective.

However, when the BG gets focused they can stop doing AoE and turtle behind evasion and their defensive skills. SMs can not, as their turtle skills (WoDS and CA) remove the benefits of this armor bonus when they need it most.

[Kyraith]

i think it proc on rdps too.
maybe that's the goal

Fair point for all except WoDS, which would still remove the detaunt from any ranged that gets dodge/disrupted. This is my biggest point here as IMO Warlords is what allows 2H tanks to be durable. WoDS is the ohh **** card for SMs, but the reflect dmg guarantees that as soon as the mitigation buff wears off you will be taking full damage from everyone.

Personally I would gladly give up the reflect damage here in order to keep up the detaunt when wearing warlord, but again I am not asking to make major changes to the class. Just asking for consideration on minor changes to the armor that still meet the spirit of the armors goal.

[anarchypark]

i think it proc on rdps too.
maybe that's the goal

Fair point for all except WoDS, which would still remove the detaunt from any ranged that gets dodge/disrupted. This is my biggest point here as IMO Warlords is what allows 2H tanks to be durable. WoDS is the ohh **** card for SMs, but the reflect dmg guarantees that as soon as the mitigation buff wears off you will be taking full damage from everyone.

Personally I would gladly give up the reflect damage here in order to keep up the detaunt when wearing warlord, but again I am not asking to make major changes to the class. Just asking for consideration on minor changes to the armor that still meet the spirit of the armors goal.

All tank sets are same.
WoDS is 2h SM specialty.
I think it's too much to ask special treatment becuase SM is special.
it would be double special bias.

you have 2 great tools which don't synergy. rather interfering each other.
I would work on how to use them properly.
others have great 1 + normal 1.
or normal x 3 etc.
if you go dps 2h, you can't have all of top defensive tools.

[CytheX]

Tbh, the real problem is wods reflected dmg that is very low and that not proc blade enchantments

[Kyraith]

i think it proc on rdps too.
maybe that's the goal

Fair point for all except WoDS, which would still remove the detaunt from any ranged that gets dodge/disrupted. This is my biggest point here as IMO Warlords is what allows 2H tanks to be durable. WoDS is the ohh **** card for SMs, but the reflect dmg guarantees that as soon as the mitigation buff wears off you will be taking full damage from everyone.

Personally I would gladly give up the reflect damage here in order to keep up the detaunt when wearing warlord, but again I am not asking to make major changes to the class. Just asking for consideration on minor changes to the armor that still meet the spirit of the armors goal.

All tank sets are same.
WoDS is 2h SM specialty.
I think it's too much to ask special treatment becuase SM is special.
it would be double special bias.

you have 2 great tools which don't synergy. rather interfering each other.
I would work on how to use them properly.
others have great 1 + normal 1.
or normal x 3 etc.
if you go dps 2h, you can't have all of top defensive tools.

I hear you. But do not 100% agree.

“All Tank sets are the same” we already know to be false. On Warlords the 8 piece set bonus is already different for SMs vs IBs/KotBS.

“WoDS is special. Asking for too much special treatment”. Yes WoDS is special, but your implication is that other classes do not have powers to make themselves durable with 2Hs as well. Every tank class has ways to become durable while 2 Handed (except for maybe KotBS after that nerf, sorry guys!), WoDS just happens to be the swordmaster’s way. And that way happens to cost them the benefit of Evasion. As far as I know, every other 2H Tanks survival skills play nicely with Evasion. I am not asking for special treatment, just asking to be on the same playing field.

[Kyraith]

Tbh, the real problem is wods reflected dmg that is very low and that not proc blade enchantments

Procing blade enchants would be way too overpowered. Could probably get 20-50 procs in a 20 second period and heal your party back to full with Vauls.

Also the damage is largely fluff, but is definitely not worthless. A few whirling SMs standing in the door of a fort definitely adds to the death of the melee charge.