do we have a balance problem?

[teiloh]

Nice write down. I wanna add the dual whielding classes with free 15% parry (destro: DoK, WE, Mara, Choppa - order: Slayer and WH), which means more proccing, also a DoK tactic that let covenants proc 15% more often and a shaman tactic for a damage add on the next two hits.

Thanks. I forgot that. 2h does have some kind of defense penetration bonus right? Although I imagine outside of 1v1 that isn't that useful. Melee DOK is so much better than melee WP still. Procs in general, Destro is better. Then that is amplified by dual wielding, which is further amplified by having more haste.

[teiloh]

engi has an aoe knockdown

I excluded Engi/Magus knockdown as I did Pounce speed boosts, since they're used in a much different way than most of the existing options.

[teiloh]

Then there are "minor" details like Witch Elf kisses proccing much more damage and effects over time than WH bullets,

WH can get bullets on a whole wb, with Dragon Gun or apply it right away when swapping targets, while WE has to wait out icd and pray to rnjesus. Which one of the two is better depends on personal preference, build and setting.

Don't disagree. WE gets a ton more over time, but the WH can burst it over a Warband if a very specific effect is desired at a very specific time. This more or less only applies to self-heal, outgoing heal debuff and maybe AP drain if you're starved but it can be effective in those cases.

[Ramlaen]

engi has an aoe knockdown

The Magus/Engi AoE kd is significantly different than the Marauder one.

[Elemint]

Choppa pull makes the target fly and airborn targets cant defend so everyone on destro get brief undefendable attacks on the choppapulled targets.

Don't believe everything you hear

[kmark101]

I think in that comparison there, there are a lot of things missing. It's not enough to do a "bullet point" sort of analysis, pairing advantages one for one and simply assuming equivalence. There are many qualitative differences that dilute the Order advantages listed, and inflate the Destro ones.

etc...

This is a pretty nice writedown. May I add a few more things:

- Blackguard has the only armor buff in the game that stacks on top of potions. Why everyone forget about this? In the age of armor meta, with physical classes suffering, this is mega huge advantage for every destro melee with a BG guard... (and the same skill provides 45% crit reduce aka Futile Strike 5 at the same time, on demand

- IB is the only class that it's damage potential tied to it's class resource. While for BG, the class resource defines the power of effect, duration, etc.. of your skills, for the IB your class resource also defines the amount of damage you do, hence at low grudge the IB hits superweak, while the BG hits same strong at any hate level... why is such massive imbalance in a mirror class?

- Runefang. The class that was doing the less possible damage in the whole game got it's class/lore defining skill nerfed for reason noone understands, why? How Runefang was fine for 10 years and suddenly isn't?

lots of similar stuffs, always in destro favor, etc..

[TreefAM]

This is a pretty nice writedown. May I add a few more things:

- Blackguard has the only armor buff in the game that stacks on top of potions. Why everyone forget about this? In the age of armor meta, with physical classes suffering, this is mega huge advantage for every destro melee with a BG guard... (and the same skill provides 45% crit reduce aka Futile Strike 5 at the same time, on demand

- IB is the only class that it's damage potential tied to it's class resource. While for BG, the class resource defines the power of effect, duration, etc.. of your skills, for the IB your class resource also defines the amount of damage you do, hence at low grudge the IB hits superweak, while the BG hits same strong at any hate level... why is such massive imbalance in a mirror class?

- Runefang. The class that was doing the less possible damage in the whole game got it's class/lore defining skill nerfed for reason noone understands, why? How Runefang was fine for 10 years and suddenly isn't?

lots of similar stuffs, always in destro favor, etc..

The BG has to go snb (which is useless since outside of that single buff the BG has hot garbage ST buffs)
And the part of the 45% crit reduce doesn't work like that, it the 45% of your chance to get crit, so the lower your chance, the worse the buff is.

[sighy]

This is a pretty nice writedown. May I add a few more things:

- Blackguard has the only armor buff in the game that stacks on top of potions. Why everyone forget about this? In the age of armor meta, with physical classes suffering, this is mega huge advantage for every destro melee with a BG guard... (and the same skill provides 45% crit reduce aka Futile Strike 5 at the same time, on demand

- IB is the only class that it's damage potential tied to it's class resource. While for BG, the class resource defines the power of effect, duration, etc.. of your skills, for the IB your class resource also defines the amount of damage you do, hence at low grudge the IB hits superweak, while the BG hits same strong at any hate level... why is such massive imbalance in a mirror class?

- Runefang. The class that was doing the less possible damage in the whole game got it's class/lore defining skill nerfed for reason noone understands, why? How Runefang was fine for 10 years and suddenly isn't?

lots of similar stuffs, always in destro favor, etc..

The BG has to go snb (which is useless since outside of that single buff the BG has hot garbage ST buffs)
And the part of the 45% crit reduce doesn't work like that, it the 45% of your chance to get crit, so the lower your chance, the worse the buff is.

Those buffs are great, for that one guy... out of 6

[TreefAM]

Those buffs are great, for that one guy...

Oh I wish they were, but toughness/lolheal and str/willpower are absolutely useless, and after the absorb shield change, so is the little absorb.
SnB bgs pump their target with armor and use their outgoing hdebuff, and thats it (and even then they can't really go too far from their guarded target to apply it)
The only reason you would take a snb BG in your warband is because you can't find anything else.

[hammerhead]

It doesn't matter if this buff is good or not, this exclusive breaks the stucking rule.