Archmage/Shaman

[Ysaran]

Well, people try to have at least 2 more or less unrelated discussions in this thread. You have this discussions about solo game play at which AM/SHA perform at the top of the food chain. Than you have a discussion about the healer role in a somewhat organized setting. Here they are at the bottom of the barrel.

For example you can describe the class mechanic as very strong and useless. And both are true. Just not at the same time/spec/environment. In solo play it can be very strong if heal points are stacked before doing damage. In heal spec the mechanic is largely ignored except when you have FODG/EOV in combination with CD decreasers.
Fortunately that allows you adjust one without affecting the other if one feels so inclined.


There is at least one proven iteration of this class (mechanic) that was by all accounts incredibly fun to play. I dont see any conceptual problems that would require a redesign.

You says that AM/Shaman are at the bottom of the barrel interms of organized setting. Any idea how to fix this without changing the class mechanics?

[Spellbound]

Risk vs Reward

AMs are squishiest of the healers and requires being more stationary which isn’t good. So their healing delve and speed should be stronger which other healing class cast speed and delves should be scaled based on their armor and survivability. Simple concept that exist in MMOs.

Can’t speak for the DPS aspect yet since haven’t done that yet on AM. Seeing warbands constantly saying “LF WP/RP (No AMs)”, needs a solution.

[Gurf]

This thread is a classic example of why balance discussions are virtually pointless, people who main the class just repeating 'we're not op, hands off my toys', and people who play against the class in question calling for a nerf. Never going to achieve any consensus.

The honest Shaman admit their class is OP in roaming small scale, the others just want to continue to dominate and claim it is down to their own skill, rather than admit it is an OP class that has such many defensive options that it can kite warbands and survive

[Sulorie]

the others just want to continue to dominate and claim it is down to their own skill, rather than admit it is an OP class that has such many defensive options that it can kite warbands and survive

When does you and the likes admit, that they don't know how to deal with a kiter? Use /ad channel or this forum, if you are looking for help.

[Caduceus]

When does you and the likes admit, that they don't know how to deal with a kiter? Use /ad channel or this forum, if you are looking for help.

I'm sure all those RDPS that are getting steamrolled by AM/Shaman just don't know how to deal with kiters.

[Gurf]

the others just want to continue to dominate and claim it is down to their own skill, rather than admit it is an OP class that has such many defensive options that it can kite warbands and survive

When does you and the likes admit, that they don't know how to deal with a kiter? Use /ad channel or this forum, if you are looking for help.

What class can catch a kiting Shaman? WL certainly can't, they are easy RR for Shaman and they have the best tools to catch kiters on Order. Everyone knows Shaman are ridiculously OP in small scale roam, they fear nothing in rvr lakes, I expect it will get looked at some point by devs or small scale will just die out.

[NSKaneda]

What class can catch a kiting Shaman?

Based on my experience: WL, IB, WH, SW, SM, SLA

AMs certainly have the tools to shut shammie down. RPs and BWs can be painful. WL/SW team can take out shammie in seconds. Good WH burst will do the same, especially on an unprepared target.

There are ways to deal with shammie, roll one to see what's killing you.

[Arbich]

You tried to bring "arguments" over multiple pages now, but didn´t explain your premise (rdps > mdps). I don´t think you can, which means everyone can put your whole "argumentation" into the bin. But you can try... It will be a minority opinion. So to take you serious, you have to explain how you came to this conclusion when we see empirically its not the case.

Who are you talking to? I cannot be me, because that was never my premise.

Oh, I know in your mind you thought about a specific situation where you experience a shaman/AM (or maybe you were the shaman/AM) is quite quit strong (OP even) and something should be done about it.
The problem is, nobody can see in your head. In essence your proposals do run under the premise that rdps>mdps. I mean you call for nerfs for a dedicated rdps (not even SW/SH, which you might see as a melee-range-hybrid). Isn´t it obvious?
I was just saying that the basics of your whole argumentation is flawed. If you cant fix it, you shouldn´t be taken serious.

[phononHYPE]

pg 3 and I'm skipping the next 7... so sorry if this is already said:

On shaman survivability, I like it but it takes some set up. I mix armor sets for wounds, slot talis that way too, then tactic Run Away!+auto detaunt+heal crit+better heals at low HP; rr FS III (one rr from IV) and heal crit III ... basically I spec to survive running around solo. I put all my eggs in that basket but, BUT, if I'm caught without pre-hots them I'm still pretty dead.

On my order toons, shamans get away only when people don' t work together. Keep your snare up, Sever Blessings on CD. My non-Pounce rr57 WL and some random WH who was kited got (rr90+ famous shaman name here), it's doable. Yes I died from dots afterward, all good.

On WP survival, or even RP, at any high 70+ with some Sov, I've beaten on them and given up. I've seen groups of >|3 do the same. Dedicated healers that know how to detaunt, or more likely, have the tactics and rr pre-set up before getting jumped, do great. Get one heal debuff in there and you see their healing immediately start to slow and then they try to run and it's over. Dedicated healing is fine IMO. Pick up heal debuff and use CC/KD wiseley.



Edit: So I set up my shaman for solo survival, perhaps that deals into difference in group healing. I feel I do decent in that role, though honestly my zealot, dok, WP make it pretty easy. But I like running around, so they get no time.

[Caduceus]

Oh, I know in your mind you thought about a specific situation where you experience a shaman/AM (or maybe you were the shaman/AM) is quite quit strong (OP even) and something should be done about it.
The problem is, nobody can see in your head. In essence your proposals do run under the premise that rdps>mdps. I mean you call for nerfs for a dedicated rdps (not even SW/SH, which you might see as a melee-range-hybrid). Isn´t it obvious?
I was just saying that the basics of your whole argumentation is flawed. If you cant fix it, you shouldn´t be taken serious.

A strawman if ever I saw one.

I can't do anything other than repeat that that was never my premise. Had you paid attention you know that I don't even play MDPS.