Archmage/Shaman

[marafado]

This thread is a classic example of why balance discussions are virtually pointless, people who main the class just repeating 'we're not op, hands off my toys', and people who play against the class in question calling for a nerf. Never going to achieve any consensus.

if ror continues to re-work the ror work there is a possibility to have war
i suport/agree with your words and makes all sence in a player/tester perspective, if you are dev/staff member killed in 1v1 by an sham/am can be diferent!

[ByzantineTime]

You mentioned Am/Sham are OP, and I'm telling you over and over again you clearly don't read what I write, they are not OP!!!!

You can repeat it a thousand times more, but if you don't bring any arguments to the table it will matter little.

And isn't it odd that when you got properly schooled when you tried to bring numbers into the discussion, I'm suddenly using too much numbers?

Please.

Quit your slithering, little snake.

What are you talking about? you just ignored everything I wrote lols.

[Ysaran]

This thread is a classic example of why balance discussions are virtually pointless, people who main the class just repeating 'we're not op, hands off my toys', and people who play against the class in question calling for a nerf. Never going to achieve any consensus.

This is only partially true. I play shaman and I don't think it is OP because playing it, I also know how to kill it. Thus when i play order, i have no problem killing Shaman. Many ppl play both shaman and somethiing else on order and so i often die, because those ppl how to counter shaman.
Problems arise when you have ppl playing only on one side, or even worse, just one class, and so they can't see anything further their own nose

[ByzantineTime]

This thread is a classic example of why balance discussions are virtually pointless, people who main the class just repeating 'we're not op, hands off my toys', and people who play against the class in question calling for a nerf. Never going to achieve any consensus.

I don't have a problem saying shaman is op just explain why exactly.
Any "real" damage shaman "glass cannon", won't be able to kite and see what you see in lakes he will get rekt, he can't heal. Unless you call a 66hp per sec hot a real heal

"The defensive shamans that run around doting people and healing themselves are annoying they are broken"
You are aware these guys can't kill no one besides a dps class solo, if you get into a fight with 1dps 1healer that's it, no one will die. so what is so op and broken??

In fact, shaman is a weak class, because of trash class mechanic that weakens you, the more you use healing spells, your healing spells are weaker same for damage, it's only good as hybrid.

[AxelF]

This thread is a classic example of why balance discussions are virtually pointless, people who main the class just repeating 'we're not op, hands off my toys', and people who play against the class in question calling for a nerf. Never going to achieve any consensus.

I don't have a problem saying shaman is op just explain why exactly...

In fact, shaman is a weak class...

[Cimba]

This thread is a classic example of why balance discussions are virtually pointless, people who main the class just repeating 'we're not op, hands off my toys', and people who play against the class in question calling for a nerf. Never going to achieve any consensus.

Well, people try to have at least 2 more or less unrelated discussions in this thread. You have this discussions about solo game play at which AM/SHA perform at the top of the food chain. Than you have a discussion about the healer role in a somewhat organized setting. Here they are at the bottom of the barrel.

For example you can describe the class mechanic as very strong and useless. And both are true. Just not at the same time/spec/environment. In solo play it can be very strong if heal points are stacked before doing damage. In heal spec the mechanic is largely ignored except when you have FODG/EOV in combination with CD decreasers.
Fortunately that allows you adjust one without affecting the other if one feels so inclined.

Personally, I’m of the opinion to not do any mechanic overhaul. Shaman/am has been a pair of fantastic classes to play for over a decade. Changing how they play just run the risk of making them worse. Both classes are great fun. Don’t fix what’s not broken. Smaller adjustments yes, rework no.

I feel the same. There is at least one proven iteration of this class (mechanic) that was by all accounts incredibly fun to play. I dont see any conceptual problems that would require a redesign.

[NSKaneda]

This thread is a classic example of why balance discussions are virtually pointless, people who main the class just repeating 'we're not op, hands off my toys', and people who play against the class in question calling for a nerf. Never going to achieve any consensus.

What irks me is the fact that a number of people calling for shm/am nerf never bothered with using proper tools choosing instead to complain about a class they never really tried to kill.

I mean, yesterday in HP I was on my shammie and got silenced for the first time in MONTHS. I was soo excited! Unfortunately that silence must've gotten out by mistake because no-one used it again. Heal debuff? Hah, haven't seen that in over a year. Range debuff? Not in RoR afair. AP drain happens only in sieges when AMs are bored.

The list could go on but you get the picture I presume.

[Bozzax]

This thread is a classic example of why balance discussions are virtually pointless, people who main the class just repeating 'we're not op, hands off my toys', and people who play against the class in question calling for a nerf. Never going to achieve any consensus.

What irks me is the fact that a number of people calling for shm/am nerf never bothered with using proper tools choosing instead to complain about a class they never really tried to kill.

I mean, yesterday in HP I was on my shammie and got silenced for the first time in MONTHS. I was soo excited! Unfortunately that silence must've gotten out by mistake because no-one used it again. Heal debuff? Hah, haven't seen that in over a year. Range debuff? Not in RoR afair. AP drain happens only in sieges when AMs are bored.

The list could go on but you get the picture I presume.

+1

ONE semi ok tank that use SM M2 or M1 CC or stagger punt control to control you = RIP
ONE semi ok BW that use silence + a proper rotation = RIP
ONE semi ok SW that uses RKD and pounce = RIP
ONE WL with KD and know how to use pet = RIP

PPL lumber around in their city WB specs and complain bc they loose vs players that gear / spec for one purpose only

[NSKaneda]

Spoiler:

This thread is a classic example of why balance discussions are virtually pointless, people who main the class just repeating 'we're not op, hands off my toys', and people who play against the class in question calling for a nerf. Never going to achieve any consensus.

What irks me is the fact that a number of people calling for shm/am nerf never bothered with using proper tools choosing instead to complain about a class they never really tried to kill.

I mean, yesterday in HP I was on my shammie and got silenced for the first time in MONTHS. I was soo excited! Unfortunately that silence must've gotten out by mistake because no-one used it again. Heal debuff? Hah, haven't seen that in over a year. Range debuff? Not in RoR afair. AP drain happens only in sieges when AMs are bored.

The list could go on but you get the picture I presume.

ONE semi ok tank that use SM M2 or M1 CC or stagger punt control to control you = RIP

I know, right?

[marafado]

minor details, to keep the engine running nerfs/buffs need to hapen... if its an re-worked class even better