Archmage/Shaman

[ByzantineTime]

You can repeat it a thousand times more, but if you don't bring any arguments to the table it will matter little.

And isn't it odd that when you got properly schooled when you tried to bring numbers into the discussion, I'm suddenly using too much numbers?

Please.

Quit your slithering, little snake.

Btw.. How did I get schooled exactly because you compared a useless hp regen renown that no one uses to a 66hp dot and said it's so op the other one cost 45 renown to get to those numbers.. jeez there is a reason why no one spends even 1 renown for such a useless tactic, to your defence it's only 25 renown to get to "68 hp regen", but what kind of a sane human being would waste 25 renown points for this garbage.. maybe one kind ?
Anyways keep healing with your broken "DPS AM", and we destro going to collect the fruits from that

You were the guy talking about numbers in all your arguments, and then saying numbers don't mean everything I mean decide which is which, but I have a feeling discussing anything with you, is an equivalent of having a conversation with my chair, so good luck.

and I guess I'm a snake, snake for what lol? for telling you that 66hp per sec as a hot is a complete useless trash and won't heal anything? that's just the truth. But I guess that makes me a snake huh? maybe you just like to argue online, and when you have nothing else to say you just try to insult people.. anyways again, lots of luck to you "pal"

[Arbich]

Oh, I know in your mind you thought about a specific situation where you experience a shaman/AM (or maybe you were the shaman/AM) is quite quit strong (OP even) and something should be done about it.
The problem is, nobody can see in your head. In essence your proposals do run under the premise that rdps>mdps. I mean you call for nerfs for a dedicated rdps (not even SW/SH, which you might see as a melee-range-hybrid). Isn´t it obvious?
I was just saying that the basics of your whole argumentation is flawed. If you cant fix it, you shouldn´t be taken serious.

A strawman if ever I saw one.

I can't do anything other than repeat that that was never my premise. Had you paid attention you know that I don't even play MDPS.

Why do I have to care if you play mdps or not?
While it does help if you know the classes you are talking about and on the other hand your talk about your favorite class (whatever it is) might be biased, neither is a neccessity or certainty. You should be judged based on your arguments. And me calling a strawmen, while I just asked for not looking only at one class in isolation (you can do these to some extend, but actually other classes with some internal flaws come to my mind), but look at balance in general, doesn´t make your point of view any more substantial at all.
I told you the obvious mistakes in the basics about your "argumentation". If you can fix this by convincingly explain why you have this general opinion, its worth looking at your specifics you lay out. As long as you wont do this, your opinion is trash.
Are you a troll?

[Sulorie]

When does you and the likes admit, that they don't know how to deal with a kiter? Use /ad channel or this forum, if you are looking for help.

I'm sure all those RDPS that are getting steamrolled by AM/Shaman just don't know how to deal with kiters.

Let me assume you talk about situations like a solo rdps riding through Praag and a mean shaman jumps around the corner?
I am wondering how you get steamrolled in an environment, where it matters, when having healers and tanks.

the others just want to continue to dominate and claim it is down to their own skill, rather than admit it is an OP class that has such many defensive options that it can kite warbands and survive

When does you and the likes admit, that they don't know how to deal with a kiter? Use /ad channel or this forum, if you are looking for help.

What class can catch a kiting Shaman? WL certainly can't, they are easy RR for Shaman and they have the best tools to catch kiters on Order. Everyone knows Shaman are ridiculously OP in small scale roam, they fear nothing in rvr lakes, I expect it will get looked at some point by devs or small scale will just die out.

The only somewhat offensive specced or geared shamans, who reliably survive a full geared WL, are in hybrid spec. Their dmg pressure is mediocre, they are build to outlast any opponent, if said opponent continues to fight. Their dmg is low enough, that you can run away, while using pots.
Then again, you talk about 1vs1 in a dps-healer-tank based game. Not every class has equal chances, because the balance isn't made for this.
Multiple classes on order have range snare, kd, stagger, pounce - just imagine the dots don't kill you over time, because someone heals you.

[Sponn]

Just mirror over the entire shaman build to AM. Give AM runaway! and explosive knockback.

[Arbich]

Just mirror over the entire shaman build to AM. Give AM runaway! and explosive knockback.

Runaway was a gobbo racial since live server. And justified, cause order had the advantage of pounce and 2 range knockdowns (1 core, 1 optional). So giving gobbos some kiting advantage is ok.
Runaway is a quite strong tactic, which shouldnt hand out left and right. And mirroring is lame anyway.

[Ysaran]

Just mirror over the entire shaman build to AM. Give AM runaway! and explosive knockback.

Lol. Last minutes new: AM has the same knockback as shaman.
Maybe next time play both classes before trying any balance argument

[Toshutkidup]

Then again, you talk about 1vs1 in a dps-healer-tank based game. Not every class has equal chances, because the balance isn't made for this.

This.. and I hate how Shamans/Am's can do what they do in solo game.. but I find it easier and less stressful as mdps to just let the shamans kill you, release and move on. Dont chase them and give them the satisfaction.. just die and release. Game isnt and never will be balanced around solo / 1v1 play.

[Caduceus]

Let me assume you talk about situations like a solo rdps riding through Praag and a mean shaman jumps around the corner?
I am wondering how you get steamrolled in an environment, where it matters, when having healers and tanks.

I'm talking about small-scale. If your opinion is that small-scale doesn't matter, that's fine. But don't make claims about AM/Shaman being balanced in small-scale, because they're clearly not.

[Caduceus]

I told you the obvious mistakes in the basics about your "argumentation".

Do I need to tell you the definition of a strawman argument?

[Bozzax]

Then again, you talk about 1vs1 in a dps-healer-tank based game. Not every class has equal chances, because the balance isn't made for this.

This.. and I hate how Shamans/Am's can do what they do in solo game.. but I find it easier and less stressful as mdps to just let the shamans kill you, release and move on. Dont chase them and give them the satisfaction.. just die and release. Game isnt and never will be balanced around solo / 1v1 play.

If abilities are going to be removed on a pure “it is unfair 1v1” several other classes including slayer needs to be hit.

I ve played quite a lot of solo sorc bc ranked is so slow lately. I understand your viewpoint