Pounce/Leap feedback

[Miaso]

For balance sake the WL should have its pounce extended to 55ft or something similar and the Destro ones remain the same, as basically that is all the WL has got. Pretty much every WL I know has said they have put it on the shelf now and will play a different class as it has no advantage over any other MDPS any more. Whereas SH and WE they have a ton of other tools/ escape tools , I doubt a single SH is putting theirs on the shelf because of these changes, which shows the difference between them an WL.

A SH could leap to back lines away from guard and have the tools and survivability to escape and survive, whereas its completely different for WL, you have to know when to use Pounce and when not, when it is too much of risk by isolating yourself or over extending quite often Pounce would end up killing you, especially when learning the class. Now that has gone what is the point of the class?

[Wushi]

Personally at first I thought the 45 ft range would still be okay, but in practice it's way too short imo, it kind of defeats its whole purpose of being able to jump on the backline, catch a target... and makes the game even more of a tank/heal fest

[Dabbart]

Pretty sure Summoning Pet is the Career defining ability for WL... Especially considering Pounce has always been a Mastery ability. I know what you mean, but that's still not correct. Pounce is a tool, not the class.

If by naturally has AoE and ST specs, you mean entirely rebuilt on this server in the last few years, then sure. Entirely naturally. God only knows how many hours have gone into WL/Pet coding on this server the last few years, nor how many iterations of different abilities and tactics the WL has gone through. But it's a lot. When they say, "he wants them all" they mean just that. You want a class that can Pounce 65ft, with ridiculous ST upfront burst, fantastic AoE burst and sustain, along with a tanky pet, med armor, literally ALL of the CC, and Mdps tools(snare break/immunity, charge, bypass defenses).

Personally, I think WL is in a good place. I play on the opposite side currently, so I see them a little different. Their WB spec seems just fine, I see plenty of WLs doing well in cities. ST spec will always be fun and useful. And the sheer amount of CC they posses means they will always be very helpful in small-man play.

Did pounce range nerf hurt that much? I woulda thought having damage removed from Pounce hurt more. At 45ft, aren't you FAR more likely to land in a position to actually hit your target than at max range previously? I feel that even if pounce was removed WL would still do quite well. You just can't rely on Pounce to gift you the perfect target to timestamp.

Edit: I am entirely ignoring broken Pet pathing that lets them push through walls/doors, up to oil, etc, as well as the (now infrequent) other bugs that occur with Pets. These things impact both sides, and will hopefully be resolved some day. Obviously, these things don't put any Pet class in a "good spot". But it's a lot better than it was 5 years ago.

[Sundowner]

Pretty sure Summoning Pet is the Career defining ability for WL... Especially considering Pounce has always been a Mastery ability. I know what you mean, but that's still not correct. Pounce is a tool, not the class.

If by naturally has AoE and ST specs, you mean entirely rebuilt on this server in the last few years, then sure. Entirely naturally. God only knows how many hours have gone into WL/Pet coding on this server the last few years, nor how many iterations of different abilities and tactics the WL has gone through. But it's a lot. When they say, "he wants them all" they mean just that. You want a class that can Pounce 65ft, with ridiculous ST upfront burst, fantastic AoE burst and sustain, along with a tanky pet, med armor, literally ALL of the CC, and Mdps tools(snare break/immunity, charge, bypass defenses).

Personally, I think WL is in a good place. I play on the opposite side currently, so I see them a little different. Their WB spec seems just fine, I see plenty of WLs doing well in cities. ST spec will always be fun and useful. And the sheer amount of CC they posses means they will always be very helpful in small-man play.

Did pounce range nerf hurt that much? I woulda thought having damage removed from Pounce hurt more. At 45ft, aren't you FAR more likely to land in a position to actually hit your target than at max range previously? I feel that even if pounce was removed WL would still do quite well. You just can't rely on Pounce to gift you the perfect target to timestamp.

Fact that pounce is mastery ability does not change the fact that it is the most defining/useful ability for WL which all WLs used. Ask all WL's if they consider WL with useless pounce WL they want to play, answer is pounce is detrimental for the class to be useful, otherwise you are stuck with slayer tier mobility with less dmg and cc.

For dmg, I don't think what you mean by saying "ridicilous", because if something is that strong there are complaints about it. How many complaints there were after WL damage, pet damage was nerfed? close to zero. WL does not have AOE burst, also, only sustain. pet is not tanky also, it dies instantly in WB setting, in ranked u need either run loner or sacrifice tactic slot for revenge to make pet more of an asset than liability, because, again, it is not tanky (also WL has 15 sec cd on pet, while squig can instantly summon other type of squig). from CC wl gets: pull from the buggy pet (mara has kind of similar pull), kd from pet which is not usable in WB setting, silence from the pet, outgoing healdebuff 13 pt (other dps have incoming HDs in 9pt or 11pt tactics). mdps all have that tools, why is that even an argument? Also to use pet tied cc u need to slot pet speed tactic, while mara and mSH have their pull and kd without sacrificing tactic slot.

Yes pounce range hurt that much, it is mostly useless for what it was intended. I would trade range for dmg, especially since dmg can't crit and removes even burst from that. All other WL players who have experienced effect of range reduction say the same.

Also keep in mind that WL cannot access all cc by default, since they are in different mastery trees. Same with SH, they have the most cc in the game, but can't access them all at once.

[Miaso]

Pretty sure Summoning Pet is the Career defining ability for WL... Especially considering Pounce has always been a Mastery ability. I know what you mean, but that's still not correct. Pounce is a tool, not the class.

If by naturally has AoE and ST specs, you mean entirely rebuilt on this server in the last few years, then sure. Entirely naturally. God only knows how many hours have gone into WL/Pet coding on this server the last few years, nor how many iterations of different abilities and tactics the WL has gone through. But it's a lot. When they say, "he wants them all" they mean just that. You want a class that can Pounce 65ft, with ridiculous ST upfront burst, fantastic AoE burst and sustain, along with a tanky pet, med armor, literally ALL of the CC, and Mdps tools(snare break/immunity, charge, bypass defenses).

Personally, I think WL is in a good place. I play on the opposite side currently, so I see them a little different. Their WB spec seems just fine, I see plenty of WLs doing well in cities. ST spec will always be fun and useful. And the sheer amount of CC they posses means they will always be very helpful in small-man play.

Did pounce range nerf hurt that much? I woulda thought having damage removed from Pounce hurt more. At 45ft, aren't you FAR more likely to land in a position to actually hit your target than at max range previously? I feel that even if pounce was removed WL would still do quite well. You just can't rely on Pounce to gift you the perfect target to timestamp.

Edit: I am entirely ignoring broken Pet pathing that lets them push through walls/doors, up to oil, etc, as well as the (now infrequent) other bugs that occur with Pets. These things impact both sides, and will hopefully be resolved some day. Obviously, these things don't put any Pet class in a "good spot". But it's a lot better than it was 5 years ago.

Despite the Dev's best recent efforts the Pet still won't survive in City or in any Warband level of RVR so Pet won't be used in majority of game situations, and for me ORVR is what I usually play so the defining thing the WL brings for me is more mobility, but now that is gone why play WL over a Slayer or WH/ASW?

It doesn't have all the CC, it has a fraction of what SH has, it has a knockdown tied to the Pet, a silence and pull tied to the pet, so in big RVR it has very little cc. Its single target burst is less than ASW, Mara, WE, WH, its aoe is about the same as MSH and Mara but with less utility and survivability and does less aoe than Slayer/Choppa. Its aoe is effectively two abilities, the only thing unique it brings is an interrupt, but that is only 15ft radius.

WL was in a good place before this patch, Pounce was always a risk but what effectively gave it its edge, its single target wasn't enough to solo kill most classes but still a threat, aoe enough to provide pressure. But now like I say most people I have spoken to about the class say they are giving it up while they level other classes which can do the same job but better.

Many abilities hit at 30ft so most of the time it is easier just to walk to them then Pounce now, like the Witch Elves are finding out it is now only useful in a small handful of niche situations, which for them is fine seeing as its added onto what they already have, but for WL its just a big nerf to the only edge they had.

[Rumpel]

WE pounce has a to short range (30f), 45 would be better.

[Winry]

So are you also saying pet damage speed and dmg buff along with wl aoe spec should be reverted since it is the WL role to be a pounce ST damage class?

No he just wants them all..

Do you mean like SH? because that class does have it all as a ranged/melee class it's better than SW/WL and marauders in all aspects.

Imagine saying when the WL that's asking to be able to do aoe dmg and ST dmg with pounce (mobility) which was the only thing that the wl had over Marauders with their utility and survivability that the WL doesn't have.
Is asking to just wants them all..

Hilarious.

[Lithenir]

I play Warhammer Online for like 10 years now, had a RR100 WL on live and a RR82 WL on RoR and it's the first time since 8 years I am playing without pounce.

The WL was originally made to be a hunter, which was the right thing to do according to lore. Made to hunt down healers (that's why they the outgoing HD) and range-dps. Sadly constant forum drama from range-dps finally seemed to work and they got rid of the only threat they had to fear.
This being said I also don't think WL was ever made to play big roles in more than WB vs WB environment. One problem is that AoE dmg seems to be stronger on this server than it was on live.

But even if I am kind of disappointed about these changes (probably mostly because I run my builds since 10 years), I am also eager to find out what kind of fun builds I can run now.
One thing is for sure, they should rename "Path of the Guardian" into "Path of the Hunter" since the tree has now everything you need to do your initial job, which is hunting.

[Zhentarim]

I dont think its fair comparing WL pounce with mSH leap because one have superior survivability while the other have to deal with two master kiters.

[Sundowner]

I play Warhammer Online for like 10 years now, had a RR100 WL on live and a RR82 WL on RoR and it's the first time since 8 years I am playing without pounce.

The WL was originally made to be a hunter, which was the right thing to do according to lore. Made to hunt down healers (that's why they the outgoing HD) and range-dps. Sadly constant forum drama from range-dps finally seemed to work and they got rid of the only threat they had to fear.
This being said I also don't think WL was ever made to play big roles in more than WB vs WB environment. One problem is that AoE dmg seems to be stronger on this server than it was on live.

But even if I am kind of disappointed about these changes (probably mostly because I run my builds since 10 years), I am also eager to find out what kind of fun builds I can run now.
One thing is for sure, they should rename "Path of the Guardian" into "Path of the Hunter" since the tree has now everything you need to do your initial job, which is hunting.

I think handling of problem with rdps was very wrong, because they do not suffer from army of evil WL/SHs who pounce and delete them, rdps suffer because city terrain favours melee balls. Every WL who played in orginized city is that you jump only in niche situations, u do not want to initiate fight with pounce if you do not want to deleted and then yelled by wb leader for being dumb.

Sadly, new paths changed do not offer much. aoe and smallscale builds are the same, in rank you either take HD or pounce, and with pounce nerfed this much I run without it, basically mara with less crit, worse HD, no wound debuff, less survivable.