Squig Herder is a bit overtuned.

[Crumbs]

SH is literally a frankenstein abomination and has just about every classes' best abtilies and even more of its own unique abilities on top of that. For lack of better words it is completely **** retarded. I don't need to go into detail as to why

[Charon]

SH is literally a frankenstein abomination and has just about every classes' best abtilies and even more of its own unique abilities on top of that. For lack of better words it is completely **** retarded. I don't need to go into detail as to why

i will specify this .. maybe not even rsh but msh definitely (rankeds perspective).

[Neverever]

Yet again same destro fanboys supporting everything that destro has disregarding faction balance. see?

But make no mistake, we are not like each other at all, because when order had 90% winrate in forts, I supported changes, because continual winrate of one side of this magnitude couldn't have possibly been player issue.

While all your posts are basically telling people they need l2p, not giving any good arguments or data at all.

Oh what a good good good boy ... Dude I was one of a few who kept telling RSH didn't need big changes but a few QOL changes instead. None of the devoted SH players asked for these changes. I have also contradicted the requests for having the 100ft tactic restored with keeping the recent changes because it would be simply OP. All RSH needed was a slight dmg increase on some of its abilities and more stability on pet which plays a big part on RSH play. I still do not know whose ideas were put into work in this case. But, being limited to 65ft (I find using Gas squig for 15 more ft. pointless for various reasons) as a ranged class it is more than fair. When it comes to MSH it has been already nerfed. I think when it comes to balance 6vs6 is the best place to check the state of classes individually. And I think any Destro 6v6 player would confirm that they are not usually happy to see a RSH or MSH as dps when the game starts since other melee dps classes simply overperform SH both MSH and RSH in terms of dmg and survivability. And finally when it comes to city fights maras and choppas usually double MSH in term of both dmg and kills. And well what role RSH plays in city fights? none. SO can't understand all that whining.

see? even you can give a bit comperhensive answers. only good boi here is you

Also, you clearly don't seem do understand that rSH is ST and mSH is AOE, devs several time stated that. MSH was nerfed in terms of ST burst tactic, because having both AOE and ST in one tree with good utility is kinda broken? no?

also, other dps overperform MSH in survivability? are u sure choppa is more survivable than mSH?

In city mSH can do decent damage, but main thing he brings is utility, than would make him very good choice, if Mara and choppa did not have already better dmg and utility. The same goes for order when Slayer has all dmg and utility, but devs somehow think that it is normal. But is mSH bad for cities? no. Do people take them into cities? yes.

argument OP is making is that SH is overperforming with its utility, mobility and survivability and it clearly is, but you keep talking about rSH in cities when you literally have good AOE spec for city

Dude, never thought you deserved to be taken seriously and for once I wanted to change that and once again it ends up to the same place. Only comprehensive arguments deserves comprehensive answers. Usual sad kid whining is never going to be taken seriously in this forums and it works as intended in that way.

most of the people complain about SH here does not even know how the class works. MSH never had aoe and ST build together. Yes they are in the same tree but that's because SH only has one melee tree. Yet you had to give up good aoe burst to have goot ST dmg or give up ST dmg to have some good aoe dmg. That's very similar to WL. Yet WL has slightly less utility and cc but definately much more burst then MSH. SO WL is also OP in that sense?

What you have said is quite balanced tbh. MSH will never have the dmg burst a Mara and Choppa is capable with and that's why it has more utilities. That the mere reason people take up SH over other DPS classes. If you want to take extra CC away then you have to bring it to the same lvl with other dps classes in term of dmg burst as well. And again most of the people state a list of utilities here are not even aware of the fact most of them can't be used in a single build or together. Again same sad pandas trying to make people accept their fantasies in every similar thread as true stories. So whine as you like but that won't change the fact that SH as a class is OK. All the exaggeration and Hyperbole don't make your whining real. Maybe but just maybe, if you can catch the record of WL: an avarage of 3 complaining threads a day for a year or two..

[Neverever]

SH is literally a frankenstein abomination and has just about every classes' best abtilies and even more of its own unique abilities on top of that. For lack of better words it is completely **** retarded. I don't need to go into detail as to why

SO said the guy who plays a defensive Engi that can basicly melt everything including tanks in 6vs6 plays. Not easy mode enough for you as it is?

[Sundowner]

Oh what a good good good boy ... Dude I was one of a few who kept telling RSH didn't need big changes but a few QOL changes instead. None of the devoted SH players asked for these changes. I have also contradicted the requests for having the 100ft tactic restored with keeping the recent changes because it would be simply OP. All RSH needed was a slight dmg increase on some of its abilities and more stability on pet which plays a big part on RSH play. I still do not know whose ideas were put into work in this case. But, being limited to 65ft (I find using Gas squig for 15 more ft. pointless for various reasons) as a ranged class it is more than fair. When it comes to MSH it has been already nerfed. I think when it comes to balance 6vs6 is the best place to check the state of classes individually. And I think any Destro 6v6 player would confirm that they are not usually happy to see a RSH or MSH as dps when the game starts since other melee dps classes simply overperform SH both MSH and RSH in terms of dmg and survivability. And finally when it comes to city fights maras and choppas usually double MSH in term of both dmg and kills. And well what role RSH plays in city fights? none. SO can't understand all that whining.

see? even you can give a bit comperhensive answers. only good boi here is you

Also, you clearly don't seem do understand that rSH is ST and mSH is AOE, devs several time stated that. MSH was nerfed in terms of ST burst tactic, because having both AOE and ST in one tree with good utility is kinda broken? no?

also, other dps overperform MSH in survivability? are u sure choppa is more survivable than mSH?

In city mSH can do decent damage, but main thing he brings is utility, than would make him very good choice, if Mara and choppa did not have already better dmg and utility. The same goes for order when Slayer has all dmg and utility, but devs somehow think that it is normal. But is mSH bad for cities? no. Do people take them into cities? yes.

argument OP is making is that SH is overperforming with its utility, mobility and survivability and it clearly is, but you keep talking about rSH in cities when you literally have good AOE spec for city

Dude, never thought you deserved to be taken seriously and for once I wanted to change that and once again it ends up to the same place. Only comprehensive arguments deserves comprehensive answers. Usual sad kid whining is never going to be taken seriously in this forums and it works as intended in that way.

most of the people complain about SH here does not even know how the class works. MSH never had aoe and ST build together. Yes they are in the same tree but that's because SH only has one melee tree. Yet you had to give up good aoe burst to have goot ST dmg or give up ST dmg to have some good aoe dmg. That's very similar to WL. Yet WL has slightly less utility and cc but definately much more burst then MSH. SO WL is also OP in that sense?

What you have said is quite balanced tbh. MSH will never have the dmg burst a Mara and Choppa is capable with and that's why it has more utilities. That the mere reason people take up SH over other DPS classes. If you want to take extra CC away then you have to bring it to the same lvl with other dps classes in term of dmg burst as well. And again most of the people state a list of utilities here are not even aware of the fact most of them can't be used in a single build or together. Again same sad pandas trying to make people accept their fantasies in every similar thread as true stories. So whine as you like but that won't change the fact that SH as a class in OK. All the exaggeration and Hyperbole don't make your whining real. Maybe but just maybe, if you can catch the record of WL: an avarage of 3 complaining threads a day for a year or two..

Again, I clearly did not say that SH has all utilities available together. Yeah, what you stated was clearly why SH was overtuned, it could have good ranged dmg, good melee AOE and good melee CC with good utility, mobility and survivability. that is what overtuned means. regarding WL. WL is a melee class, it has melee st tree and melee aoe tree (and I hope devs somehow fix trees because it is now just a mess), while SH has ST ranged and melee AOE, this two are comparable.

This topic is not about mSH, it is about rSH, and how it is overperfoming. it has dmg, utility and survivability, which smells like WL in guardian era. it is what it is.

as for WL. I did not really see any frequent complaining posts before pounce and mastery tree nerf. not when pets were nerfed, not when pounce dmg was removed, because these two probably were overperforming in terms of burst, but when devs who clearly don't know how class works (secrets was on hiatus I think), nerf career defining ability and on top of that mess mastery trees, so you are left with both less mobility and utility, it is kind of sad.

and I am not saying we should nerf SH to the ground or take all utility, just some adjustments should be made. To neither nerf class to the ground or dispose of its identity.

[Gurf]

SH is literally a frankenstein abomination and has just about every classes' best abtilies and even more of its own unique abilities on top of that. For lack of better words it is completely **** retarded. I don't need to go into detail as to why

i will specify this .. maybe not even rsh but msh definitely (rankeds perspective).

Even aoe MSH can do stupid numbers and damage, all they need is a Black Ork or Choppa in their Party (which they will have 9 times out of 10) to bring Big Bouncing cooldown to spam levels.

[Jusva321]

i do alittle ranked and here you see the dam diffrence between all the dps meany times you will see a sh ad 350k and then a slayer ad 200 bw and sw ad around 170 so it is not uncommon to see a sh do the same dam the hole order team do .... nerf this plz

[Charon]

SH is literally a frankenstein abomination and has just about every classes' best abtilies and even more of its own unique abilities on top of that. For lack of better words it is completely **** retarded. I don't need to go into detail as to why

SO said the guy who plays a defensive Engi that can basicly melt everything including tanks in 6vs6 plays. Not easy mode enough for you as it is?

Restlin is doing the same dmg and is more through - Nerf Maguss ...sorry for off topic

[Sulorie]

SH is literally a frankenstein abomination and has just about every classes' best abtilies and even more of its own unique abilities on top of that. For lack of better words it is completely **** retarded. I don't need to go into detail as to why

i will specify this .. maybe not even rsh but msh definitely (rankeds perspective).

Some posts earlier I read that destro don't want to see mSH in ranked, because it is too weak. Very confusing...

[Jusva321]

then they have a problum since 9 out off 10 times you see 1 if not 2 sh in ranked .... why becuase the do dobble the damge and have every tool in the book the class is broken