The elephant in the room

[Sundowner]

Traditional Order Whine Post Vol. 9874

Traditional destro defending their tools vol. 999999

[anarchypark]

someone bring morale drain here plz.

[Greenbeast]

I do not understand why no one is talking about this, please explain and justify why this is ok.

Why do Destro tanks have m4 40 sec into every fight and why is it seen as being balanced to have access to such a strong ability so fast?

If its not seen as an issue, why not give destro tanks immaculate defence as a core ability on a 60 sec cooldown, Because at the moment that is how Immaculate Defence is being treated and used in all modes of game play.

one destro tank, on average, can drop m4s four times before order tanks even get to their first m4 why is this ok?

I was in a city this weekend where an order premade faced an alliance destro warband.
This order premade had 4 hunter speced wls and 4 sms in snb and rsw while destro had no marauders and !behold! no squigs!
Destruction premade won 3 stages in a hard, back and forth battle. After that some of order players complained about CDR and M4.
It's very interesting. Especially considering the fact that nobody aside squig, mara, shaman and tanks needs that cdr. Tanks need cdr to fight slayers(hello Rampage), shaman needs cdr for fodg, mara and squig are only dps classes that can do better with cdr.
The order group had 8(EIGHT) AOE interrupts + 8 taunts to deal with 3 choppas and sorc and a morale drain to desynchronize enemy group. Destruction group had kill potential every 30 to 60 seconds. Outside of this time window it was impossible to kill anything aside of single target focus or unguarded healers.
In my opinion this is a clear execution issue that has nothing to do with morale pumps.
No tanks in this alliance warband cycled M4 because they cycled Bellows to allow their dps survive to their win condition or used M3 damaging morales to help kill enemies.

Below a VOD of TUP vs NGE/LOB that they had 4-6 days ago. Top Destro vs Top Order. Look order run two AM, Engi and WH. LUL!!!!!
How much MORE balanced you want this game to be?
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/907629128

[Sundowner]

someone bring morale drain here plz.

Isn't solar flare order's only unique morale drain?

[detrap]

Well if morale pump shall be changed, please consider that order has stome strong morale drains and KOTBS morale 3 10s stagger is really strong as a >>tank<<

That breaks on damage and BO has one that silences

[detrap]

I do not understand why no one is talking about this, please explain and justify why this is ok.

Why do Destro tanks have m4 40 sec into every fight and why is it seen as being balanced to have access to such a strong ability so fast?

If its not seen as an issue, why not give destro tanks immaculate defence as a core ability on a 60 sec cooldown, Because at the moment that is how Immaculate Defence is being treated and used in all modes of game play.

one destro tank, on average, can drop m4s four times before order tanks even get to their first m4 why is this ok?

I was in a city this weekend where an order premade faced an alliance destro warband.
This order premade had 4 hunter speced wls and 4 sms in snb and rsw while destro had no marauders and !behold! no squigs!
Destruction premade won 3 stages in a hard, back and forth battle. After that some of order players complained about CDR and M4.
It's very interesting. Especially considering the fact that nobody aside squig, mara, shaman and tanks needs that cdr. Tanks need cdr to fight slayers(hello Rampage), shaman needs cdr for fodg, mara and squig are only dps classes that can do better with cdr.
The order group had 8(EIGHT) AOE interrupts + 8 taunts to deal with 3 choppas and sorc and a morale drain to desynchronize enemy group. Destruction group had kill potential every 30 to 60 seconds. Outside of this time window it was impossible to kill anything aside of single target focus or unguarded healers.
In my opinion this is a clear execution issue that has nothing to do with morale pumps.
No tanks in this alliance warband cycled M4 because they cycled Bellows to allow their dps survive to their win condition or used M3 damaging morales to help kill enemies.

So you guys won that city still without having a better warband comp? /confused

[M0rw47h]

So you guys won that city still without having a better warband comp? /confused

Imagine having better coordination is more important than having perfect class setup.

[Greenbeast]

I do not understand why no one is talking about this, please explain and justify why this is ok.

Why do Destro tanks have m4 40 sec into every fight and why is it seen as being balanced to have access to such a strong ability so fast?

If its not seen as an issue, why not give destro tanks immaculate defence as a core ability on a 60 sec cooldown, Because at the moment that is how Immaculate Defence is being treated and used in all modes of game play.

one destro tank, on average, can drop m4s four times before order tanks even get to their first m4 why is this ok?

I was in a city this weekend where an order premade faced an alliance destro warband.
This order premade had 4 hunter speced wls and 4 sms in snb and rsw while destro had no marauders and !behold! no squigs!
Destruction premade won 3 stages in a hard, back and forth battle. After that some of order players complained about CDR and M4.
It's very interesting. Especially considering the fact that nobody aside squig, mara, shaman and tanks needs that cdr. Tanks need cdr to fight slayers(hello Rampage), shaman needs cdr for fodg, mara and squig are only dps classes that can do better with cdr.
The order group had 8(EIGHT) AOE interrupts + 8 taunts to deal with 3 choppas and sorc and a morale drain to desynchronize enemy group. Destruction group had kill potential every 30 to 60 seconds. Outside of this time window it was impossible to kill anything aside of single target focus or unguarded healers.
In my opinion this is a clear execution issue that has nothing to do with morale pumps.
No tanks in this alliance warband cycled M4 because they cycled Bellows to allow their dps survive to their win condition or used M3 damaging morales to help kill enemies.

So you guys won that city still without having a better warband comp? /confused

In 90% of the cities I play it's not a warband comp that is important but the execution and understanding of what do you want to achive with your warband comp. Look the TUP vs NGE/LOB. What warband had better comp? 2 AM, WH, Engi or destro melee train? But they have even kills and neither side could wiped another one.
Maybe after all this is not about comp but about people playing their roles.
The city score after stage III was 289 vs 370 and before stage III it was more or less even. Our enemies made a mistake in the last stage that costed them 12 man wipe and 1 champion after what they never fully recovered and we won pve at the end.

[emiliorv]

someone bring morale drain here plz.

Isn't solar flare order's only unique morale drain?

No.
Solar flare drains all the morale (9 targets) => targets go from full morale 4 to cero morale....
but order hava access to other morale drain abilities that drain less but are more "spammable"

[detrap]

I was in a city this weekend where an order premade faced an alliance destro warband.
This order premade had 4 hunter speced wls and 4 sms in snb and rsw while destro had no marauders and !behold! no squigs!
Destruction premade won 3 stages in a hard, back and forth battle. After that some of order players complained about CDR and M4.
It's very interesting. Especially considering the fact that nobody aside squig, mara, shaman and tanks needs that cdr. Tanks need cdr to fight slayers(hello Rampage), shaman needs cdr for fodg, mara and squig are only dps classes that can do better with cdr.
The order group had 8(EIGHT) AOE interrupts + 8 taunts to deal with 3 choppas and sorc and a morale drain to desynchronize enemy group. Destruction group had kill potential every 30 to 60 seconds. Outside of this time window it was impossible to kill anything aside of single target focus or unguarded healers.
In my opinion this is a clear execution issue that has nothing to do with morale pumps.
No tanks in this alliance warband cycled M4 because they cycled Bellows to allow their dps survive to their win condition or used M3 damaging morales to help kill enemies.

So you guys won that city still without having a better warband comp? /confused

In 90% of the cities I play it's not a warband comp that is important but the execution and understanding of what do you want to achive with your warband comp. Look the TUP vs NGE/LOB. What warband had better comp? 2 AM, WH, Engi or destro melee train? But they have even kills and neither side could wiped another one.
Maybe after all this is not about comp but about people playing their roles.
The city score after stage III was 289 vs 370 and before stage III it was more or less even. Our enemies made a mistake in the last stage that costed them 12 man wipe and 1 champion after what they never fully recovered and we won pve at the end.

You only had 2 black orcs in that fight, we know for a fact destro dps get better heals when a BO is guarding them so maybe you needed a couple more there. The point of the post is that having 4 or more black orcs in a city means constant m4 rotations via the self morale pump as well as morale pump from shamans. The ability to have a tank m4 ready every 40 seconds is a big issue.