End game gear problem - it's real!

[grim78]

Let me start by saying, this is not me complaining, I think Warhammer is a great game even though the end game gear aspect is pretty much a flawed design. I am here trying to pin point a problem and offering a solution. Maybe it is just me having these thoughts; if that is the case, this thread will quickly die away. This end game gear design reminds me more of a theme-park PvE game than a PvP focused game, and the end game fights should be decided on skill not who has the best gear. Try to view these bulletins from a new player’s point of view.

Problems:
• The gear cap from Conq to Sov is too big. The game can be “hardcore” and still able new players to be competitive as they reach 40/40. RoR has always had a gear problem, but after sovereign, it became more obvious. Did you know that heavy armor’s AR goes up by about 230 from Conq to Vanq, and 230 again from Vanq to Invader, but from Invader to Sovereign it goes up 516! From Conq to Sovereign its 983! That’s five and a half free 180 armor talismans, which the devs decided to nerf. That’s quite the advantage to have in a fight!
• There are about 30+ different item currencies. Come on! There has to be a solution, which is less confusing?
• There are more minor problems, such as currency vs renown, end game favoring certain classes, etc.

Solution: Sovereign gear players are not going to like this!
1. Remove all the various end game currencies – stick to one. Make one for each race. Example: Dark Elves collects “High Elf Ears” and High Elves collects “My Little Pony dolls” (Sounds about right).
2. All end game gear leveled down, or up, to an equal power level. Weapons, armor, and jewelry. Requirement: 40/40. Cost: X amount High Elf Ears. Each set of items is designed to a certain build. This is also generate a lot more gear combinations and creative gear set ups than we have today.

Now that we have leveled the playing field, a golden carrot must be given to those who thirst for gear power.

3. Talismans. Create higher renown leveled talismans which drops as loot in City, PvE dungeons, Ranked SC, or they can be bought from vendors if you are high enough renown. This way you can increase the power of gear in a very controlled manner.

Examples:
• +25 Strength talismans
• +23 Strength talismans with 1 ability – akin the weapon procs.
• +21 Strength talismans with 2 abilities.

Now this is just my initial thought of one way to fix the gear situation in RoR – this is by no means a perfect, or a well thought out solution, but I think you get the gist of it; level playing field, boost and create unique end game talismans.

Cheers and Good night
Grim

[sharpblader]

Let me start by saying, this is not me complaining, I think Warhammer is a great game even though the end game gear aspect is pretty much a flawed design. I am here trying to pin point a problem and offering a solution. Maybe it is just me having these thoughts; if that is the case, this thread will quickly die away. This end game gear design reminds me more of a theme-park PvE game than a PvP focused game, and the end game fights should be decided on skill not who has the best gear. Try to view these bulletins from a new player’s point of view.

Problems:
• The gear cap from Conq to Sov is too big. The game can be “hardcore” and still able new players to be competitive as they reach 40/40. RoR has always had a gear problem, but after sovereign, it became more obvious. Did you know that heavy armor’s AR goes up by about 230 from Conq to Vanq, and 230 again from Vanq to Invader, but from Invader to Sovereign it goes up 516! From Conq to Sovereign its 983! That’s five and a half free 180 armor talismans, which the devs decided to nerf. That’s quite the advantage to have in a fight!
• There are about 30+ different item currencies. Come on! There has to be a solution, which is less confusing?
• There are more minor problems, such as currency vs renown, end game favoring certain classes, etc.

Solution: Sovereign gear players are not going to like this!
1. Remove all the various end game currencies – stick to one. Make one for each race. Example: Dark Elves collects “High Elf Ears” and High Elves collects “My Little Pony dolls” (Sounds about right).
2. All end game gear leveled down, or up, to an equal power level. Weapons, armor, and jewelry. Requirement: 40/40. Cost: X amount High Elf Ears. Each set of items is designed to a certain build. This is also generate a lot more gear combinations and creative gear set ups than we have today.

Now that we have leveled the playing field, a golden carrot must be given to those who thirst for gear power.

3. Talismans. Create higher renown leveled talismans which drops as loot in City, PvE dungeons, Ranked SC, or they can be bought from vendors if you are high enough renown. This way you can increase the power of gear in a very controlled manner.

Examples:
• +25 Strength talismans
• +23 Strength talismans with 1 ability – akin the weapon procs.
• +21 Strength talismans with 2 abilities.

Now this is just my initial thought of one way to fix the gear situation in RoR – this is by no means a perfect, or a well thought out solution, but I think you get the gist of it; level playing field, boost and create unique end game talismans.

Cheers and Good night
Grim

Look it's been said many times before so I'll say it again:

1. Yes there's a gap in power but you cannot devalue the time put in by others for getting there.

2. Making all gear equal seems great on paper but it results in zero progression which in the long run can disrupt MMO population unless there's some other form of "newness". Not possible in case of RoR due to limited assets.

3. Endgame fights are not determined by gear nor skill. Sure they have an impact, but the prime factor is level of coordination and wb composition.

4. Introducing more powerful talismans you would probably recreate the same problem you're trying to solve. After a couple of months, people who don't have "talisman ability" or have bad RNG or not high RR to purchase talismans will complain of those that do and call for their removal.

[Starx]

The gear treadmill and it being absolutely bonkers in terms of both time investment and time gating is necessary tbh.

Ask yourself what would happen to the population of this server if you could get full sov and RR80 in 2 weeks to a month. I think most of us would say the server would die? And what does that ultimately mean? The gameplay loop of endgame RvR isn't fun on its own and we are addicted to character progression?

I'd counter this by saying back when t3 was the cap you could indeed get the best gear possible and highest rank in 2 weeks, and at least for me that was the funnest time this server ever had. But then what was different back then at least for me? You had a lot of competition and rivalry with guild warbands, tempest wolves, pf, etc... etc... you had tons of 6 mans even in NA fighting each other every night in scs. Now the 6man scene is a bunch of egotistical schizos who avoid fights because their life would be over if they lost, and organized warbands fighting other organized groups outside of planned events just don't seem to be a thing.

[Bowldancer]

As someone who basically gave up on his main as there is no more progression left I spent the last weeks and months on low rr alts in T4 and I feel different.

I find it really easy to get to the point where you have Conq/Vanq and starting to get Invader tokens and I felt completely fine at that point.

I even did it solo on my 40/3x WH which I dusted off. That is probably as rough as it gets.
I have now a dozen chars I feel completely confident with in T4 RvR.

I heavily dislike the Talisman idea. Chapter 22 PQs and Twitch events handing out the best talismans in the game already interfered too much with the economy imho but I might be in the minority with this opinion.

[Dalsie]

If you are looking for a level playing field, why not just remove all sets of gear from the game? Have only green Precursor Items. And then remove all RR, because it that takes time too, make everyone start at 80. No more pots, because those are not fair either, so just remove the entire Auction House and crafting. Ofcouse, no expensive dyes, so remove all dyes or make them free. Where do you want the level playing field to end?

[M0rw47h]

Overall horizontal progression > crappy progression we have right now.

[Mordecaieth]

Stat squish sovereign or buff invader/bloodlord. The power gap that Sovereign has created has caused a noticeable ripple effect that could easily become a wall of text.

[TreefAM]

sov op sure

[ravezaar]

I heavily dislike the Talisman idea. Chapter 22 PQs and Twitch events handing out the best talismans in the game already interfered too much with the economy imho but I might be in the minority with this opinion.

I aslo agree Grimm.

For the Gear-Gap thing isnt Hunters Vale comming soon ? And wasnt its gear between VanQ & Invader ? If so that closes it abit further right.

[Zizzelfizz]

It's always the same, people who have been playing for a few months think they should have the same equipment as those who have been playing for years. I've been playing on this server since day one, like many others, and I've earned every part, no matter how long it took. if you want to have equipment thrown at, play, wow or gw2 .....