Analyzing Order

[Arbich]

I still think that when torquemadrawas lead a lot of class balance changes were his vanity projects and not really based on general balance (doesn´t mean all decisions were bad, most may even seem go at first view in isolation, but on a broader scale they didn´t really made sense) . It were mostly destro classes then and the general balance is still haunted by these changes in the past.
I would like to see a revert of all class changes that were made in the last 4(?) years and reassess how each class should perform and then focus mostly on balance within each faction. But wont happen and balance in general is not in a terrible state. We have to deal with it.

Spoiler:

1. Barrage DPS is not exceptional. You can get 600-700 morale drain in 10s every 25s if time it perfectly and all hits land. Destro morale builders will get thousands in that time.
2. It's not. You can aim 40 feet to optimizing and Slayer doesn't even have 10% of the SH's mobility tools and survivability.
3. It's only situationally OK. Shaman version is better, full stop.
4. Spec WOT then. If SW is "so broken" with a 600-700 drain every 25s, then Mara with 225 every 5 seconds with Destro perma CD reducer is even more broken.
5. Almost every BG has Wave of Scorn.
6. No. You absolutely can run faster than a pet, it will literally never reach you unless it has Charge/Speed training.

1. 10sec VoN 10sec WW why 600-700? 700-900 if you use your action point smart. Have you played vs Lemonshope(not sure about name) or with him? 1 sw in city and his drain morale are really annoying.
Once time been in Rolgrom city wb with 5sw, destro don't have morale bomb at all and it was vs full 24man.
2. I know now Sh is broken but still shatter limb is better.
3. Shammy have many other tactic better so no use at all.
4.If you spec WoT you don't have wrecking ball, like i write before mara not use this skil at all. Mutated aggresor, 50% crit dmg, wrecking ball is must have for aoe mara.
5.IB bring more to pt. I know there is some meme Gravord build...like 2h without heal debuff etc but be serious.
6. Seen many wl around charge/speed training...pet immune to knock>pull>knock>dead.

So to the argument that the shaman morale pump tactic is better than the AM one, your counter argument is not to contest this claim and instead saying that shaman cant take the tactic, because he has other even better tactics?! Congratulation! You won the "I have the dumbest reasoning" contest.
Honorable mention to the usual "Its not a balance problem, order just plays the wrong (weak) classes".

Such a shitshow

[Sponn]

You can literally just afk in warbands it is so nice. Ez levels, ez gear, ez life! lolol loving it!

WoW!! 100% order mentality. Do nothing, let others do the job, get rewards...

How would you know, you just said yourself you don't even play Order. LOL you sure have a lot of time on your hands to troll these forums for someone who "doesn't have time" to play other classes.

And I guess sarcasm is hard to detect on the interwebs, who knew.

Guess I should clarify, what I'm saying is Destro side is so ez you figuratively (not literally) don't have to do anything! It is a lot more chill and relaxed probably due to how much effort one has to put forth per-side.


I highly suggest playing the other side, it would allow you the opportunity to have experience on what you're talking about instead of just talking out your bum! See you on the ez (destro) side!

[Mergrim]

I still think that when torquemadrawas lead a lot of class balance changes were his vanity projects and not really based on general balance (doesn´t mean all decisions were bad, most may even seem go at first view in isolation, but on a broader scale they didn´t really made sense) . It were mostly destro classes then and the general balance is still haunted by these changes in the past.
I would like to see a revert of all class changes that were made in the last 4(?) years and reassess how each class should perform and then focus mostly on balance within each faction. But wont happen and balance in general is not in a terrible state. We have to deal with it.

Spoiler:

1. Barrage DPS is not exceptional. You can get 600-700 morale drain in 10s every 25s if time it perfectly and all hits land. Destro morale builders will get thousands in that time.
2. It's not. You can aim 40 feet to optimizing and Slayer doesn't even have 10% of the SH's mobility tools and survivability.
3. It's only situationally OK. Shaman version is better, full stop.
4. Spec WOT then. If SW is "so broken" with a 600-700 drain every 25s, then Mara with 225 every 5 seconds with Destro perma CD reducer is even more broken.
5. Almost every BG has Wave of Scorn.
6. No. You absolutely can run faster than a pet, it will literally never reach you unless it has Charge/Speed training.

1. 10sec VoN 10sec WW why 600-700? 700-900 if you use your action point smart. Have you played vs Lemonshope(not sure about name) or with him? 1 sw in city and his drain morale are really annoying.
Once time been in Rolgrom city wb with 5sw, destro don't have morale bomb at all and it was vs full 24man.
2. I know now Sh is broken but still shatter limb is better.
3. Shammy have many other tactic better so no use at all.
4.If you spec WoT you don't have wrecking ball, like i write before mara not use this skil at all. Mutated aggresor, 50% crit dmg, wrecking ball is must have for aoe mara.
5.IB bring more to pt. I know there is some meme Gravord build...like 2h without heal debuff etc but be serious.
6. Seen many wl around charge/speed training...pet immune to knock>pull>knock>dead.

So to the argument that the shaman morale pump tactic is better than the AM one, your counter argument is not to contest this claim and instead saying that shaman cant take the tactic, because he has other even better tactics?! Congratulation! You won the "I have the dumbest reasoning" contest.
Honorable mention to the usual "Its not a balance problem, order just plays the wrong (weak) classes".

Such a shitshow

People have diffrent way to play game. I'm now focusing on play ranked, and AM morale pump combine with m4 WH 100% heal debuff 15 sec destroy every game. So for me AM morale pump>shammy morale pump.
And nope its not dumb. Ofc he can take tactic same like marauder can take WoT and deal no dmg...

[havartii]

I still think that when torquemadrawas lead a lot of class balance changes were his vanity projects and not really based on general balance (doesn´t mean all decisions were bad, most may even seem go at first view in isolation, but on a broader scale they didn´t really made sense) . It were mostly destro classes then and the general balance is still haunted by these changes in the past.
I would like to see a revert of all class changes that were made in the last 4(?) years and reassess how each class should perform and then focus mostly on balance within each faction. But wont happen and balance in general is not in a terrible state. We have to deal with it.

Spoiler:

1. 10sec VoN 10sec WW why 600-700? 700-900 if you use your action point smart. Have you played vs Lemonshope(not sure about name) or with him? 1 sw in city and his drain morale are really annoying.
Once time been in Rolgrom city wb with 5sw, destro don't have morale bomb at all and it was vs full 24man.
2. I know now Sh is broken but still shatter limb is better.
3. Shammy have many other tactic better so no use at all.
4.If you spec WoT you don't have wrecking ball, like i write before mara not use this skil at all. Mutated aggresor, 50% crit dmg, wrecking ball is must have for aoe mara.
5.IB bring more to pt. I know there is some meme Gravord build...like 2h without heal debuff etc but be serious.
6. Seen many wl around charge/speed training...pet immune to knock>pull>knock>dead.

So to the argument that the shaman morale pump tactic is better than the AM one, your counter argument is not to contest this claim and instead saying that shaman cant take the tactic, because he has other even better tactics?! Congratulation! You won the "I have the dumbest reasoning" contest.
Honorable mention to the usual "Its not a balance problem, order just plays the wrong (weak) classes".

Such a shitshow

People have diffrent way to play game. I'm now focusing on play ranked, and AM morale pump combine with m4 WH 100% heal debuff 15 sec destroy every game. So for me AM morale pump>shammy morale pump.
And nope its not dumb. Ofc he can take tactic same like marauder can take WoT and deal no dmg...

Am is just way better than shaman. Remember shaman cannot cleanse AM dots. Imagine that

[teiloh]

People have diffrent way to play game. I'm now focusing on play ranked, and AM morale pump combine with m4 WH 100% heal debuff 15 sec destroy every game. So for me AM morale pump>shammy morale pump.
And nope its not dumb. Ofc he can take tactic same like marauder can take WoT and deal no dmg...

This is a very niche use of an ability and has counters (morale drain/stopper) lifetaps should also heal through the debuff.

[anarchypark]

ok... it's wall of text with broken english.
i get that it's hard to read.
so long story short,
it's about getting same result with less effort.
it's not about pug vs premade.
on pre vs pre, why order need more hassle in some performance.

ofc order wins if players are better.
but players can't maintain high focus everytime.
relax play is not possible in order.
( pug stomp is out of story )
that's why order premade are scarce.

if you disagree let us know destro hassle.

[Lorsten]

Why u think winning on order takes more effort?
It definetely takes much more effort to make and lead strong WB on order, because the setups are pretty strict (despite destro flexibility). There is just not enough leaders who can build WB using order meta classes.
But for average player its the same gameplay, spam aoe, channels and morals on call. Not rocket science. If you competent player on slayer/wl/wp/rp you can find a good WB to join. If you play engie, SW or BW, well, typically there is only 1 slot for ur career, you got rough times.

[emiliorv]

You can literally just afk in warbands it is so nice. Ez levels, ez gear, ez life! lolol loving it!

WoW!! 100% order mentality. Do nothing, let others do the job, get rewards...

How would you know,

You told us....you was a order player unable to win in order and xrealmed to afk in destro warbands.

[anarchypark]

Why u think winning on order takes more effort?
It definetely takes much more effort to make and lead strong WB on order, because the setups are pretty strict (despite destro flexibility). There is just not enough leaders who can build WB using order meta classes.
But for average player its the same gameplay, spam aoe, channels and morals on call. Not rocket science. If you competent player on slayer/wl/wp/rp you can find a good WB to join. If you play engie, SW or BW, well, typically there is only 1 slot for ur career, you got rough times.

It's not about winning.
I listed some performances and required efforts. and differences.

when average players do the same gameplay, spam aoe, channels and morals on call. Not rocket science.
there's difference.
that's my point.

you call it comp problem.
some may call it gears.
others say player issue.
I say easy/hard efforts unbalance.

making group is hassle.
order need another hassle to perform same level of destro.
It's too much so order quit forming premades.
prove me wrong or tell me your story why you don't run premade weekend warfront.

[Naelar]

People have diffrent way to play game. I'm now focusing on play ranked, and AM morale pump combine with m4 WH 100% heal debuff 15 sec destroy every game. So for me AM morale pump>shammy morale pump.
And nope its not dumb. Ofc he can take tactic same like marauder can take WoT and deal no dmg...

This is a very niche use of an ability and has counters (morale drain/stopper) lifetaps should also heal through the debuff.

Funny how Order 'op' stuff is a 'niche' ability, while destro 'op' stuff is something that everyone of that particular class youre whining about has...
and you're sorc/bw and engi/magus whining is still wrong.