RvR, AAO and incentive for actual fights

[Dondabon]

I think change to RR from OIL was a great example of how design changes should be. It simply takes away the incentive to waste a strategic defense tool for personal gain, shaping player behavior in the right direction.

Dev team should look more in how to "align best interest of individual with desired gameplay expected from players". Otherwise people will almost always follow what is in their own best interest. My suggestion with this thread was built on that premise. Hope we see more changes that incentivize players to act in the way it is healthy for the game.

Dalen and I had a discussion like 2 weeks ago and things were positive, he's keen on improving the experience in RvR lakes and I believe once the tiny project we're working on is done, we should see more RvR adjustments. We are currently working on something minor for RvR which has been suggested last year.

The issues with RvR changes remain, as they impact the biggest segment of the community. Which means dozens of additional opinions, which some might be completely contradicting. Internally alone, there could be several opinions. Then, within the whole community, there could also be dozens of opinions. I have a plan to propose to Max regarding RvR changes, the process and the feedback in order to speed things up, but that will have to wait for next month.

Very interesting replies, thanks for open answers. Did you guys discuss reverting some of balance changes along with RvR ones? I might be wrong here, but I still think that balance changes are driving the most population swings that happen suddenly (like in previous few months).

[don775]

I think change to RR from OIL was a great example of how design changes should be. It simply takes away the incentive to waste a strategic defense tool for personal gain, shaping player behavior in the right direction.

Dev team should look more in how to "align best interest of individual with desired gameplay expected from players". Otherwise people will almost always follow what is in their own best interest. My suggestion with this thread was built on that premise. Hope we see more changes that incentivize players to act in the way it is healthy for the game.

Dalen and I had a discussion like 2 weeks ago and things were positive, he's keen on improving the experience in RvR lakes and I believe once the tiny project we're working on is done, we should see more RvR adjustments. We are currently working on something minor for RvR which has been suggested last year.

The issues with RvR changes remain, as they impact the biggest segment of the community. Which means dozens of additional opinions, which some might be completely contradicting. Internally alone, there could be several opinions. Then, within the whole community, there could also be dozens of opinions. I have a plan to propose to Max regarding RvR changes, the process and the feedback in order to speed things up, but that will have to wait for next month.

Very interesting replies, thanks for open answers. Did you guys discuss reverting some of balance changes along with RvR ones? I might be wrong here, but I still think that balance changes are driving the most population swings that happen suddenly (like in previous few months).

-and with a similar note regarding player swings would be nice to hear what is planned prior to said changes.

[CountTalabecland]

The main reason for this is that most players are in the gearing process of their toons so they want to progress and be able to compete against sov. To do so, its all about locking zones and getting good bag bonuses. Especially since the defensive bag roll was introduced when doors go down.

Fights are fun and can give good renown, but they don't give you bags and they don't randomly drop gear pieces. You get a few fragments at most and then have to roll for it. The rate of gain there is super slow.

Not much difference in rewards, as far as I can tell, from taking a lightly defended keep as opposed to moderately defended. Zone numbers are non-specific and obviously don't show how many of those defenders are actually in the keep and not AFK or hopelessly pug.

TLDR, There really isn't any point to focusing on finding other WBs to fight out in the lakes. Other than box running, which usually devolves to each side holding 2 BOs and running boxes in grps, all of the contribution and rewards for bag rolls seem to come from keep sieges. If things are going to change, there needs to be a gear reward for pure fights.

[Dondabon]

-and with a similar note regarding player swings would be nice to hear what is planned prior to said changes.

Yes, I agree. Devs started doing some explanations, but I think sharing long term goals and how introduced changes are moving into that direction would help people understand and accept them easier and know what to expect in the future I think.

[GamesBond]

-and with a similar note regarding player swings would be nice to hear what is planned prior to said changes.

Yes, I agree. Devs started doing some explanations, but I think sharing long term goals and how introduced changes are moving into that direction would help people understand and accept them easier and know what to expect in the future I think.

We do not openly share what's coming and that's due to the fierce community behavior that would judge and put pressure on these projects (and their respective developer) if they did not meet either the deadline or the expectations. While I've always pushed for an open communication between the team and the community, I also have to make sure our developers aren't constantly getting tomatoes thrown at them because that's what always happens if something that you dislike is getting developed/focused on. Not sometimes, not frequently, but always.

Nevertheless there will be more focus on RvR now and we actually shared a juicy reply a few days ago. Hopefully we can stick to that expectation but you should always expect the worst. I also hope that this 'leak' proves all of the team wrong and that no pressure or stress would be put on the developers, in order for us to become more communicative in the future :)

[don775]

-and with a similar note regarding player swings would be nice to hear what is planned prior to said changes.

Yes, I agree. Devs started doing some explanations, but I think sharing long term goals and how introduced changes are moving into that direction would help people understand and accept them easier and know what to expect in the future I think.

We do not openly share what's coming and that's due to the fierce community behavior that would judge and put pressure on these projects (and their respective developer) if they did not meet either the deadline or the expectations. While I've always pushed for an open communication between the team and the community, I also have to make sure our developers aren't constantly getting tomatoes thrown at them because that's what always happens if something that you dislike is getting developed/focused on. Not sometimes, not frequently, but always.

Nevertheless there will be more focus on RvR now and we actually shared a juicy reply a few days ago. Hopefully we can stick to that expectation but you should always expect the worst. I also hope that this 'leak' proves all of the team wrong and that no pressure or stress would be put on the developers, in order for us to become more communicative in the future

Putting time and effort (and deadlines??) for changes the community would disapprove make things even worse, community will have their opinion regardlessly if it was implemented or not.

I fail to see the logic in that, let alone the guessing part. 'counter productive' is a very gentle term to describe it and as I said numerous times the dwindling community is a very strong indication to the loss of faith.

[don775]

-and with a similar note regarding player swings would be nice to hear what is planned prior to said changes.

Yes, I agree. Devs started doing some explanations, but I think sharing long term goals and how introduced changes are moving into that direction would help people understand and accept them easier and know what to expect in the future I think.

I personally dont care for explanations, it is the actual decisions that are important.

[Koryu199X]

I can understand your frustration as a new player. I play Order and while levelling my toons I was often asking myself - "Why do so many guys choose to play Destro? Don't they see enough sh!t in real life to be on the bad side when they play mmos?"

Not sure about that comment there, are you referring to the why of people choosing to play destro? If so I would double check you knowledge on the lore and account for the fact this is also a tabletop hobby in which many people myself included play so our choices will reflect that. Chaos is at the heart of Warhammer. If you're referring to something else then ok.

@Gamesblond

It's good that the team is willing to communicate more and I understand completely that they may not want to communicate with the community out of fear of reprisal or more specifically out of the fact that they may feel all their hard work is unappreciated. However, how some people have been spoken to is one of the reasons for this. But also a lack of healthy discussion with the community which can be hard to get serious answer from or even to sift through the complaining makes for very challenging times. I know you can't read every post and you are a small team. However, it would be nice if they were considering some of the suggestions from players to level up the game and make it more inclusive. We all (or at least I do) want the same thing. I have an idea for instance for oil and turning it from a simple you dump oil on people to a wow that was a beautiful pour of oil you timed it well I can hear their screams.

[Collision]

Order, the good site of warhammer ahahaha

High elf --> racist and elitist
dwarf --> racist
empire --> xenophobic and ultra religious.

Only Nurgle is love in warhammer

[Neduz]

Like already mentioned, I feel like SoR is a big part of the problem with showing zone population.

I can openly admit that I sometimes don't even bother to go and defend when I see the opposite side having far superior numbers.
It's just demoralizing especially with the value ranges being the way they are.