Full regen build ruining the game

[tazdingo]

(And that 167 hp/s you mentioned did not yet account for class abilities like Bolstering Anger)

it did, that was the 50. 300/3 sec (no longer gets buffed by bgs will buff) with 50% uptime = 50/sec. i added it at the end. most tank abilities sit at around that number, with maybe BO having the best efficiency due to on hit bellow and SM getting the short stick, maybe improved by boh if you wanna go all in. ib and cho can double down with the disrupt tacs and knight probably averages the 50

- no sorry you're right i forgot to add the 50 in the post, so it's 217 all in

everything else

agreed, but are we still talking dueling and ganking? my point is that the ability to stack regen offers a lot to a underplayed archetype, an archetype who's presence is sorta needed to make the game work particularly in casual and pub play whilst only disrupting a pretty niche part of the game. 2 WHs still eat a bis regen tank, and rightly so. can an offtank/dps heal duo not even damage him? i'm sorry but i do not care

[Mordecaieth]

The full regen builds on tanks is way too strong. I was with a friend 2h ib could not even get the chosen 2h down more than 85% and we both in Full bis gear.
With that extra item we got 80 regen should have been instead something like +20 initiative.
The damage to balancing class/gear is pretty much done since we got sov gear without releasing any good dps weapons (back in live was like 105 dps) soo any defencive build will alwas be better than any offencive build if your melee. I personaly think the most balance the game was when Bloodlord/invader was last tier.

With regen We could make it if you put any kind of 25, 50% anti heal it would also work for regen.

Meaning if you got 500 regen would go down to 250 if 50% anti heal is placed.
Or release sov weapons?

What's is your thought?

100% agree. Not only on tanks. On pretty much every class that can go tanky.

It's easy to get several hundred hp every few seconds. On main problem here is that ring https://ibb.co/D1dCk9X that exists in various versions on both sides and is NOT UNIQUE!

The new quest item from city with 80 per 4 seconds made it even worse.

Imagine a WE with 600 absorb after crit, heals on their kisses with tactic, several hundred reggen, heal/absorb potions and great escape abilities. On top of that they still do a lot damage, even if they go full def, because their procs are barely affected by strength. And they just buffed that procs with the latest patch. It's stupid...

Same with Maras who have a self hot and tons of toughness and tanks that take almost no damage. It's broken...

Same with BGs who have bubble, heals and a m1 that can bring them to 100% life again when they have some dots/debuffs on them, which they usually have. It's stupid...

I have been fuming to myself about reasons like this, you do not notice these types of builds unless you do small man roaming. I 100% agree with you and I've even wondered
if there is ways to address this.

A few ideas to put regen builds in check would be:

Make the fleshrender rings unique equipped.

Reduce all regen 4/s values on existing gear similar to the armor talisman nerf. Scenario weapons, blue gear, pocket item, sov gear, etc.

Address abilities that heal for "damage done by x heals for 150%".

Keeping an eye on which items that are added to the game with this stat... the following is a prime example.



I can explain why this item is an oversight simply due to item level, and I'm no expert. This blue item which was recently added in is item level 36,
You can also gain this hp/4s by running three items which are item level 71-77 for tanks (warlord chest, warlord boots, off sov shoulders.)

Gear like this is pigeon holing small man/roamers to almost always spec defensively, as the OP has stated. Defensive builds have become meta, therefore limiting creativity and effectively causing damage builds to slowly become obsolete.

[Husti]

Well, WHs can't go full def and let the procs do the work, like WEs can. Nor do they have that 600 absorb after crit. Does WL have a self hot like Mara or such high toughness or a parry bonus because of dual whield? No. Does any other tank beside BGs get that M1 heal, together with absorbs and other heals? No

To answer your question: No, order can't do the exact same thing WEs, BGs and Maras can do it. And destro tanks do more damage. Everybody knows that. For example, you wont kill anything with a reggen knight but you will with a reggen chosen.

Are you really that blind and fanatical that you think Destruction has all the advantages?

I'm honestly asking, because I've never seen you post anything that doesn't mention destruction being broken beyond repair or Order being complete garbage. If someone were to believe what you say, Destruction would be an unstoppable juggernaut that rolled over three times their numbers without a problem. If that were the case, the population wouldn't be as close as it is, and Order would never be able to compete; yet it is, and they do.

People are trying to voice an actual concern about game mechanics, and you're trying to derail it and turn it into another "Woe is me, my faction is horrible" cry fest and then pretending you're not doing that. You're either feigning ignorance, or truly ignorant, and I'm not sure which is worse.

I just responded to your post and tried to point out that regen together with some class abilities is very strong. It is not my fault that these classes are all destro classes. I said nothing about balance. I just said that I find it stupid what they can do.

Beside that you seem pretty new to this game and know nothing about end game or late 1:1 encounters.

Btw I noticed your posts aswell... most of them contain some kind of insults... just because you don't like a post is no reason to attack the poster like you did here again...

[reynor007]

Spoiler:

100% agree. Not only on tanks. On pretty much every class that can go tanky.

It's easy to get several hundred hp every few seconds. On main problem here is that ring https://ibb.co/D1dCk9X that exists in various versions on both sides and is NOT UNIQUE!

The new quest item from city with 80 per 4 seconds made it even worse.

Imagine a WE with 600 absorb after crit, heals on their kisses with tactic, several hundred reggen, heal/absorb potions and great escape abilities. On top of that they still do a lot damage, even if they go full def, because their procs are barely affected by strength. And they just buffed that procs with the latest patch. It's stupid...

Same with Maras who have a self hot and tons of toughness and tanks that take almost no damage. It's broken...

Same with BGs who have bubble, heals and a m1 that can bring them to 100% life again when they have some dots/debuffs on them, which they usually have. It's stupid...

I love how you only name Destruction classes, as if Order is incapable of doing the exact same thing.

Well, WHs can't go full def and let the procs do the work, like WEs can. Nor do they have that 600 absorb after crit. Does WL have a self hot like Mara or such high toughness or a parry bonus because of dual whield? No. Does any other tank beside BGs get that M1 heal, together with absorbs and other heals? No

To answer your question: No, order can't do the exact same thing WEs, BGs and Maras can do it. And destro tanks do more damage. Everybody knows that. For example, you wont kill anything with a reggen knight but you will with a reggen chosen.

I don't think you understand what you are talking about, WH can easily kill any full regen 2h tank, this has been proven and more than once, no chance
even with all WE ups, my WH build remains the strongest

[Omegus]

Just as reminder when comparing the impact of regen builds:

With 900 willpower and no other bonuses, the basic HoT on my Zealot (Tzeentch's Cordial) heals for 2310 over 15 seconds, or an average of 154 per second before taking into account crits, incoming healing buffs and incoming heal debuffs.

Is getting a bonus of one HoT disruptive for 1v1? Absolutely. But the bigger the fight gets, the less relevant regen builds become.

It was funny watching a lowbie witch elf and a bunch of healers trying to kill a random regen solo Swordmaster in KV earlier today though.

Beside that you seem pretty new to this game and know nothing about end game or late 1:1 encounters.

Remind me again, how does toughness work?

[Husti]

I don't think you understand what you are talking about, WH can easily kill any full regen 2h tank, this has been proven and more than once, no chance
even with all WE ups, my WH build remains the strongest

So what you are saying is that when your WH can kill them all everything is fine? Cool, flawless logic... /end thread

[reynor007]

The full regen builds on tanks is way too strong. I was with a friend 2h ib could not even get the chosen 2h down more than 85% and we both in Full bis gear.
With that extra item we got 80 regen should have been instead something like +20 initiative.
The damage to balancing class/gear is pretty much done since we got sov gear without releasing any good dps weapons (back in live was like 105 dps) soo any defencive build will alwas be better than any offencive build if your melee. I personaly think the most balance the game was when Bloodlord/invader was last tier.

With regen We could make it if you put any kind of 25, 50% anti heal it would also work for regen.

Meaning if you got 500 regen would go down to 250 if 50% anti heal is placed.
Or release sov weapons?

What's is your thought?

maybe I'm wrong, but you shouldn't kill a tank regen for 2h IB, any sovereign tank has more than 120% physical defense and 650+ tough, you simply cannot achieve such characteristics on a 2h tank, your armor penetration must be at least 60% and even in the presence of an armor debuff, mitigation will be more than 50%, and if the enemy uses armor talismans or endurance, he can also use damage reduction for rr, if you want to kill a regen tank, play class that can do enough damage
I'm also sure that you do not take into account that any chosen person has a parry of at least 50%, and maybe more, attach a file with how the battle went and your characteristics

[tazdingo]

yeah that has to be bugged

[reynor007]

I don't think you understand what you are talking about, WH can easily kill any full regen 2h tank, this has been proven and more than once, no chance
even with all WE ups, my WH build remains the strongest

So what you are saying is that when your WH can kill them all everything is fine? Cool, flawless logic... /end thread

you are obviously one of those who are always not happy with the balance and believe that destro is always stronger
so agree with you / end thread

[Xirucio]

The mental gymnastics that everyone does in order to prove that his ''emotional attachment class'' it's not OP but his enemy...it's pure popcorn.
Guys, enjoy the game for what it is, embrace new ''experiences'' and try to think in solutions.
Bolstered 12k level 25 characters are not fair either <----but i don't complain.LEL! (well...i do, a bit)
Cheers!